German Shepherd / Crufts Showing

Why do ALL those dogs, when playing tuggy with the guys arm stand on their hocks?? Other dogs stand up on their toes and the hocks would only be touching the floor when they are sitting r lying down
Why is it different with these GSD's?

perfect egsample... how can they say they have changed, for the better? thank you.

NOBODY CAN ARGUE WITH THAT! nice one moobli.
how can anybody say that they have listened to these words? and thats the man who started this great breed of dog. ( NO RESPECT)

I was appalled at the comment from the judge that a working line dog would not win because it does not conform to the breed standard; surely if the health of the dogs is paramount and i'm not sure anyone here is arguing the health of working line dogs, then the breed standards needs to be changed?

all my dogs have been rescues and that is a personal choice for me, i do not profess to be an expert on the breed and indeed Max is my first every GSD. However, health is first and foremost for me. Fit for function is important to me, and surely the fact that a lot of 'rescues, bybs' have poor health is an issue. Surely if the breed standard were different then us folks with our (scraped from the bottom of the barrell) rescues would have better dogs - the better the standard is at the top end, it will be better at the bottom?

Its attitudes like this that make me even more determined to proved it wrong - watch out for me posting in a few years bragging about Max's TDEx ....I may even show him!!!!

These posts really surprised me about you Wildmoor, in general your posts on this and other forums have added value, and your contribution has always been very good

I don't agree, I have seen Moobli's posts and pictures of her dogs. I have the impression that her opinion on what she is looking for has changed, but her attitude to her dogs other than Zak have not

Oh dear, this thread has gone to ballbags as per. I have to say i'm pretty shocked at comments implying those with rescue dogs cannot have an opinion on this!

"She" probably will do "She" will be guided by the breeder of her "mainly DDR bred" dog, as they are producing an all round dog that is just the sort I have been after for years. I have had GSDs for the past 15 years and have had a rehome of mixed lines from the police, an English obedience line and a WG showline, so have never shown "allegiance" to only one type.

To be honest, I am surprised at your attitude and personal remarks on here and elsewhere Pam. I think it undermines your usual informative self.

Thank you Nick. I hate it when comments get personal on forums like this Anyway, you are correct, I value and love all of my dogs equally - whatever line (or breed!) they are.

I agree, it's the rescue owners that clean up the mess and by-products

I agree - Wildmoor / Pam's posts are ones I always look out for (amongst others) and read with earnest as I often learn from them

a vet cant fail a dog due to looks alone - they have to fail on health reasons and to that vet the conformation of the said dog was not causing the dog to suffer.... I have not read the whole thread and dont care to, but its these sorts of comments that show total lack of understanding and education.
Just because you dont like how a dog appears doesnt mean something is in fact wrong with the overall dog

well said SB..

This is true....at the same time a vet will first inspect a dog visually and then by touch

An interesting point, especially when we consider that the converse may also be true

Of course a vet will first inspect a dog visually, as would a judge. The problem is when we ourselves havent had a hands on approach we are very limited in our knowledge of a dog and therefore can not make such sweeping statements as first made by the original poster, in the opening post! - Both the vet and judge went over the dog in question, therefore NO one that HASNT gone over the dog themselves can question the 'experts' choice. (not in my opinion anyways!)

i.m sorry i got you into trouble with the "wild"one moobli.
but she was the first to tell me off.. when i first started!;-)

don't totally agree with that

this forum in itself would be nothing without opinion, debate and advice on matters in the world of dogs....crufts is the biggest dog show in the world therefore it goes without saying that there will be a great amount of opinion sharing and debate...i don't think we are excluded just because we can't inspect the dogs, nor should we be exluded from such debates just because we are rescue or byb dog owners!

I didnt suggest that you couldnt have an opinion I said you cant, QUESTION the decisions of those with more knowledge on the dog.

How can you comment, questioning a vets/judges opinion when you have not had the same level of hands on they have! - The simple answer is you cant, you can comment on what you see and you cant do any more than that. - although what you see may not be the case
- and as for not having an opinion due to owning rescues, or BYB dogs I didnt suggest such, I own rescues myself.

Yes, I know you didn't suggest the rescue thing, someone else did earlier in the thread

Not sure I was questioning the judges decision anyway, just sticking my opinion in

One point about people being picky about show or working lines
The breed started as a working breed so ALL GSD's are from working lines

but first and foremost they are all DOGS so anyone who has a dog has the right to comment

and I think after listning to the Clumber people we have a responsibility to speak up because it seems that some people in a breed can get so blinded with what they are used to seeing that they just beileve it is correct and dont question if it is RIGHT

so again I ask - to anyone who wishes to answer - but someone defending the look of the show lines it would be really good to hear from

Is the movement of the dogs in the PDE link that was put up in this thread correct?
Should a GSD be 'cow hocked'?
If so why, what benifit is there in this?
Should a GSD stand on its hocks in normal activity?
Why/ why not?

and as a bonus question - Should a dog stand on its hocks in normal activity? Why/why not?

The movement of the dogs is not correct but they are young, less than 18 months old, still puppy lose & driving hard on a hard surface. In Germany they would be in the youngest class, they don't show puppies. If you see those same animals a year later most if not all would not move in this way.
No a GSD should not be cow hocked, but these dogs are not cow hocked, they are lose, sometimes cow hocked, sometimes the opposite.
I have never seen a GSD stand on it hocks, push down on them when pulling or springing but stand on them no so I can't help there.

Ummmm ....if this is how the breed started off




[/IMG]

then surely this



is closer to how they should look ? ...lets face it none of the GSD types now resemble the original breed !!

No, a GSD is not a BSD......................