German Shepherd / Crufts Showing

not sure where you have this idea! take a long hard look at all he hip scores for GSDs then look even more closely at the lines producing bad scores

There is no need to be defensive. I understand and am aware of the health problems that ALL types of GSDs can suffer from, so my question was merely why are the KC flagging up the WGSL as a high profile breed?

The breeder of my dog is one of the most knowledgeable breeders I have ever come across and I trust her judgement.

I am well aware that ALL types and lines of GSDs suffer the same health issues - therefore my question was why the KC were flagging up the WGSL in particular!

I thought he looked pretty fit. Looks wise I'd go short hair working but I prefer the look of about every working dog vs it's show equivelent.

Entirely different from the Westminster winner.

Although I do not believe that I have personally 'slated' anything, I do struggle with the fact that you seem to think that anyone that has chosen to rescue an otherwise unwanted dog are not entitled to an opinion.

I am one of those that have owned quality pedigree dogs in the past, but due to the amount of GSDs in rescue, I chose to give a loving, caring, pet home to one that had possible issues.

This decision should not mean that I am deemed 'unworthy' to have an opinion. I can admire and appreciate the working dogs without having to own one.

I understand that your comment was maybe not aimed at me, but it is difficult to ignore a comment that is derogatory to those of us that have rescues.

as we have discussed before Zak is a mix of lines including WGSL

Well said Sue

And as I replied before ...

Both Zak's mother and grandmother were imported from Eastern Germany, but since the DDR registry ended with the unification of Germany in1990, there are no DDR dogs born since then. Zak is line bred 3.2 on Tino, one of the last DDR registered dogs, with all the backmassing of DDR lines that entails. His grandfather, Angus is predominantly Belgian working lines through Pasco and Xatoh, with some Western showlines from the 1980's on his mother line and back again to a border patrol dog from the East who was Angus gggg grandfather.

Thus, Zak is a mix of lines on paper, but genetically predominantly DDR through backmassing of Eastern German ancestors because Tino is so close up in the pedigree.

touchy arent we no different from me thinking yours looks weird;-)

because of JH programme even though it was just 6 dogs shown in extremely slow motion
I am being defensive due to your change in attitude in the last couple of months - you have your 1st work/show line dog and all of a sudden only worklines will do!

my comment was not aimed at you I have not seen any of your post - my comment was aimed at the one I quoted and a few members here who are members of other forums

Not at all Pam. I am just questioning certain things and playing devil's advocate in order to expand my own knowledge. My attitude hasn't changed. I am still very impressed by certain WGSL (like the Conbhairean) and if you look back at my comments I have said that I like Rico.

However, as my WL GSD Convert thread stated, I have been converted to the working lines. That is not to say that I still don't like and admire some of the WGSLs.

The only type that I am not a fan of at all are the very heavy, short legged and deep chested old English showlines.

you are just quoting what you have been told you wasnt even aware you had showlines in your dogs lineage from 3rd gen back untill I informed you

that isnt the impression you are giving on various forums everything you post in these contraversal threads are anti WGSL

LMAO so if we dont own one then we cant have an oppinion on them?? I have loved the GSD all my life and it breaks my heart to see just a noble dog reduced to wobbly back legs

Do you have any proof that health testing produces healthier dogs?

That is good to hear, it is only by small steps forward will we see a sensible big change in the future

The comment was on the size of the hips not the score - there is more to a healthy dog than a hip score
It is something I have seen lots of - more so in the American dogs - because of the excessive angulation the back legs just cannot be used to power forward as they should and there is less muscle development in the back end of these dogs than there is in the front - and so smaller hips

What is your oppinion of the movement of those dogs tho?? Yes it is slowed down - but I have slowed down some clips of my dogs and friends dogs (including GSD's) and there is no evidence of wobbly hocks

In your oppinion was the movment of theose dogs - in extream slow motion - correct??
Should a GSD have cow hocks, and to the degree seen in the dogs in the 2nd vid? and what is the reason for that?

I'm not sure why people get so defensive?

Why do WGSL fans get so wound up when WL people say they prefer working lines?? It wouldn't bother me at all what you called my working line dog or whether you think he is deformed or ugly or the wrong colour because I think he is great.

What is the problem if Moobli had decided that she prefers WL and no longer likes showline?? Is there a law to how long you need to own a certain dog to like it's lines??

Each to their own, I think.

Yep, I am quoting what Zak's breeder told me, after all, she knows the lines better than anyone. At no time have I said I am an expert in working line or show line GSDs. I am still learning about the various lines.

I don't agree. In practically all my posts on the WGSL I have said that I am not keen on the over-exaggerated highlines (which I have always said) - however, I feel that imo Rico is not an exaggerated example and is a nice dog. Just because I would not choose to own another WGSL (but never say never), that does not mean that I am anti this type.

The reason that I dislike the handler's style of handling Rico is because he is running the dog on a very short tight lead, pulling him back & restricting his movement. Rico has been training to run on a long slack line & his other handlers allow him to do this & his hind movement is shown to be far more correct.

Don't worry if you are a lover of the"straight!backed Alsatian type, Bill Petrie, next year's judge should be able to fulfill all your dreams & send a dog that looks like the breed did in the UK in the 1940s-1950s to the group, I can't wait to see it's perfect straight & level topline & superb "flowing" sound movement, power around the big ring.

For those who believe that WL dogs cannot move incorrectly have a look here & this dog is pure WGWL ! He moves quite normally whilst running free BTW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SfP7YEBk30
3.36 mins.
Certainly looks fit for function to me!!

I havent watched the video links I did watch JH's links when she put them on PDB along with the admittance it took a year to find enough video footage for the 6 dogs concerned not a full type of dog but 6!

I am not just refering to this forum but talking about elsewhere - if she prefers workline why not purchase pure workline