German Shepherd / Crufts Showing

Saw him 'in the flesh' on Saturday - I agree Smokey - a truly stunning dog

I love GSDs but without a doubt show stock appear to be getting a more and more slanted downwards back and overly bent hocks. Is there any wonder that so many lose the use of their back legs!! It makes them look deformed, especially when they have a slight arch in their backs as well!! I have seen photos on this site of GSDs whose appearance would make them far more deserving winners I too am very sorry that the GSD got through to the final line-up.

Oh and please remember that I haven't said ANYTHING about Rico, I haven't seen him. I'm talking about GSD's in general.

There is a great deal of difference between saying

"This dog is not to my personal taste"

And accusations of cruelty.......................

The former is an opinion, the latter is slander/libel.

Me to, a stunning dog, and was happy to see him go through.

I.

For what my opinion is worth I thought he was gorgeous

If he'd had a roach that is a fault, but he hasn't.
He has superb movement & temperament & deserved his place.

Can someone posts some pics please./

Correct

There were only two dogs in the groups that had roach backs

The Borzoi
The Bedlington

The GSD in question did not..............

I understand that this is the epitome of the current version of the breed - but I don`t like the hindquarter dip, and I don`t like the sheer size of the dogs now. Like GSPs they have been bred up in size I think.
Personally I`m stuck in the past and my tastes were fixed in prehistory when GSDs were medium-sized, agile and had the same topline as a collie.
on this page - my personal preference is for the 1950s type.
http://www.aboutgermanshepherddog.com/german-shepherds-evolution
I`ll go away now...

The change over the years is really quite distinct.

I, too, prefer the straight back. I think the breed as it stands now looks rather ridiculous.....

i thought the GSD was gorgeous

The GSD who you are slagging off is a healthy dog, he has passed all his health tests, working tests & endurance tests.

When you state "straight"back, do you mean when the dog is standing foursquare/or in the show stance the topline is straight ? If so then your ideal dog will actually fall on forehand when moving, which in turn means that the dog expends excess energy when moving & ergo is not fit for purpose.

As for running on his "hocks"you do know that the hock is the joint above the rear pastern ?? If you really want to see dogs with severely bad fore & hind movement, go to any show where the judge is of the Alsatianist persuasion, there you will see dogs with straightish toplines(what you consider to be the dogs backs)weaving away back & front whilst their toplines bounce around & their heads are kept up by a cheesewire choker up under the ears pulled tight.

Watch next year, if the GSD judge judges to what he owns, you will see an Alsatian win BOB which may or made not pass the vet test(it's odds on that it will not have had all the required health testing done beforehand)

They were not the website that someone linked to doesn't show the dogs from the 1940s, 1950s etc

The dogs in the UK in the 1940s & 1950s had to have the breed standard amended to include "Noted suspicion of strangers"to allow for their terrible temperaments & characters. Most of the dogs(with some very notable imported exceptions)could not be handled without being held in place & choked with their chokers under their ears(something the Alsatianists still do)the dogs in the UK of the 1950s had very very deep chests, short legs & long loins

Have a look at this album of various GSDs from the 1950s to 2000

Some of them won BOB at Crufts & one even attacked the ring steward resulting it being quietly removed from the group without being seen by the judge as it had"gone lame"

Can you explain how a hock can be bent it's a joint not a bone ?

here is a picture of him here

http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/Breed.asp?ShowYear=2012&GroupID=PAS&ScheduleID=121

i can see the controversy, in the picture his back slopes off quite a bit and people now associate that with poor gait and health issues

personally i prefer straight backed, but i see that SB's point is that the health and working ability of this boy are excellent

am i right in saying that in germany the dog has to have an IPO qualification before showing?

I have no idea about such things as showing doesn't, or ever will, float my boat.

I also must admit to posting without realising the health / temprament of this lad.

So, I guess, well done to him, but I will never be persuaded to like the sloping back dog and I believe the worry is people looking for dogs with this look and association people seem to have with poor health?

Saying that, my rescue GSD has a straight back (mostly), however if it turned out to be sloping it wouldn't make any difference to me, but I would probably worry a little.

thanks for that. i can understand a temperament or "guard/aggression" tendancies being dealt with, by breeding. but i cant understand how its ended up so physically different.. eg roached or arched back.. and that very short rear stand, and how people can say they are "NOT!"
i am not trying to argue, for the sake of it. i just can't understand how people accept it. when people use a dogs physical achievements and abilities to say its ok. these were achieved IN SPITE OF THESE FRAILTIES, NOT BECAUSE OF THEM. which once again goes to show what an incredible breed this is!!!

No it's the VPG(Vielseitigkeitsprüfung für Gebrauchshunde previously Schutzhund)IPO is the International qualifications run by the FCI

When you write "Straight back" I presume you mean a level topline in stance, which means the dog will fall on forehand in the trot(not the flying gait)the speed at which the breed works stock