GSD takes Group at Westminster Showing

Very odd looking IMO.

I am going to watch the BOB judging tonight when I get a chance, and have also found this - which makes interesting reading (I haven't had a chance to read it all yet, but will do later).

http://www.workingdogs.com/lshaw1.htm

Don`t know a lot about GSD, but cant see any deformities in him, good angulation, nice straight hocks, good feet and a straight back, not sure what else you would want in this breed.

from my understanding the GSD is a trotting breed and as such his conformation is essential for him to do his job.

Regarding the stance of the GSD , from my observation, its a natural stance of the dog, we see pics here all the time of GSD looking alert and naturally standing in this stance.

Stacking a dog in the ring is to show him off to his best potential, and as its a natual stance for a GSD to stand this way, it stands to reason they will show him off in the ring in the same way.

OK, some people are better or worse at it than others, some prefer more, some less, all breeds will be shown in a stance that shows tham off best for their conformation.

My gran used to drum into me, "stand up straight", other wise you look like a sack of spuds.. standing tall and erect shows off your figure much better than standing hunch backed, and sloppy.

It's a weird way of standing (just watched the video). Makes 'em look knock knee'd. Would be nice to see them moving naturally too say like a 20- 30m recall to handler - all a bit dressage but maybe that's part of it.

See - my ignorance knows no bounds

Thankyou
That link has said exactly what I have been trying to say for ages
The show dogs are not overdone in the stacking, they are stood so the hock to floor is at 90 degrees and pararlell to the thigh
The dogs build not the stack has changed over the years
In normal slow movement these dogs often have their hocks on the floor and standing and walking they wobble inwards
Gaiting the reach is too far so the hock is on the floor and much of the energy is wasted resulting in a dog with a strong front but less muscled back end

I haven't seen the vids yet but this guy seems very big and a little fat/ lacking in muscle tone too for my liking

The dog looks better than I've seen in previous years videos at Westminster however I don't seem to be able to load the videos on my IPad anyone? Is it not 'powerful' enough?

It's now more than 20 years since I owned GSDs. They had straight backs then.

Thank you I just googled him, and on the images, there is a pic of his either walking or trotting to the side of his owner, and to be honest, I would be more than happy if my dog had that degree of angulation I think Jess has more roach back than that to be fair (not a good thing IMO).

If you look at his back, if you were to put a straight object (i.e. a book or a pen) along the back, it is straight pretty much all the way down. That's a straight back. The roach back will titre off way before the end.

If you look at this random pic of Jess for example (she isn't stacked, it's just the way she chose to stand), her back is much more roached that the dog in the opening of the thread. So, yes, stacking does enhance the roach, BUT you've got to have a fair bit of roaching there for it to look banana backed (if you get what I mean - I'm not very good at putting what I mean into words)



Whereas this random pic of Harley when he was young, who again isn't stacked, but chose to stand that way, you can see how much straighter his back is.

When I said 'straight' above - I suppose I should have said 'level' - well, not 'sloping down' is what I meant.

Thank you! You explained that well and I think I understand now.

Where does the roach come from then? Are breeders aiming for that, or is it a fault? confused.com

Helen

Not got a clue lol.

I think some breeders must aim for it, but I think it has something to do with the different lines as well. I find the English show lines seem to, in general, be more straight backed than the German lines for example.

I've got pretty much no knowledge on it though, just purely what I've took note of with all the GSDs I've seen

OMG what a terrible dog, there is sadly now an inbred instability if the back & hindquarters of the USA showline "GSDs" Have a read of Jean Mueller's article

To those who think that if thie dog was stood 4 square it would have the"straight"back so beloved of Joe Public & Alsatianists & those who do not read the full breed standard, it cannot because of the excessive angulation & overlong stifle. They cannot walk correctly they are bred to have a flying gait & period of suspension(when all 4 feet are off the ground for as long as possible)

The German Breed standard states

The back is from the base of the neck to the start of the croup(ie where the last rib is located)

This dog is "long backed"& long coupled & if not strung up in movement would "run down hill"in the trot. GSDs do not naturally gait/trot with their heads in the air, the head & neck should be extended forward so the dog can see where it is going

This dog has to be stood this way otherwise you would see the incorrect proportions-from UK breed standard-Length measured from point of shoulder to point of buttock, slightly exceeding height at withers. Correct ratio 10 to 9 or 8 and a half.-from the AKC breed standard The German Shepherd Dog is longer than tall, with the most desirable proportion as 10 to 8½. The length is measured from the point of the prosternum or breastbone to the rear edge of the pelvis, the ischial tuberosity. The desirable long proportion is not derived from a long back, but from overall length with relation to height, which is achieved by length of forequarter and length of withers and hindquarter, viewed from the side. This dog fulfills neither of these :-(

See, I don't see a roach back on Jess - I think her shape looks good next to the breed standard. Or am I wrong?

Really interesting article Dyane, and just goes to show the USA showline GSDs are flawed on a number of levels!

This is a really interesting thread and I'm certainly learning a lot - making my head spin though! lolol

Helen

I dont know moobli, you and your can of worms!

Here he is last year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXJmw9LRMj8

I dont think he is a bad dog, he looks quite nice but isnt my type.

I was just using her as an example against the original dog as she has a much more pronounced slope than him

Her's isn't that bad

Better than number 12.

Hm what happened to the level topline in movement ??? He has to raise his croup to be able to move his hindquarters, would prefer to see him moving around a ring half the size of a football pitch for 30 minutes or so I think that he wouldn't be able to trot(& not the flying gait fast pace shown on the clip)for very long

His flying tail & upright neck postion are both totally incorrect