Then and Now.. Discussions

The photos just show that the show ring has not improved all breeds:-(

Chows do not look like the same breed - and in my opinion the earlier ones looked a lot better, and look what has happened to the poor old Rough Collie.

really interesting to see. Some dogs hardly changed at all, I think the boxers look better - and some not looking so good

Heres the border collie
Auld Hemp 1893-1903
THE PROGENITOR OF THE BORDER COLLIE BREED

and a border collie from a couple of years back (I think its a westminster dog)


Lol in the bigger image I can SEE its a westminser dog

I agree. To me, the heyday of the chows was the beginning of last century, up to before WW2. My favourite of all is a dog from the 1920s. They haven't ruined the TMs yet - in Europe at any rate.

Rough collies eyes nowadays freak me out. So many of them look like they are squinting in bright sunlight.

Groenendaels

1940's




1970's


now - 8 month pup




adult male

This is a really interesting thread - some lovely photos being posted here. I think some of the really 'fluffy' show dogs are simply due to being dried with a hair-dryer

I'm actually pleasantly surprised at that as, being quite ignorant, I thought they had far more wrinkles nowadays.

Border terriers:



These are Tarn and Jim:





Helen

I've got a book with old working dogs in and it's amazing the differences there are in today's breeds.

Helen

I have a couple of books...if only my scanner would work!

Not all are so sheltie like, there are still many breeders of english line collies that still look like rough collies, that said I and a lot of other people aren't too keen on a lot of the american/canadian imports coming over as aside from the height and less coat theres something which doesn't ring true with the "old fashioned" title that gets pushed around about them, not quite the same with the head/expression and ears.

Really interesting to see the early borders, it's quite a dramatic change really. I always quite presumed that they were quite an unaltered breed from their creation too the present?
Some breeds have changed quite a lot, the chows seem quite "overdone" now with the muzzle and wrinkles etc, from a novice point of view.

If money was no object, I would have a couple of American Roughs.

With Roughs, there does seem to be a huge difference in the coats, even now from breeder to breeder. I dont like too big a coat, CH Pelido Double Fantasy (the shaded sable in my pics) is about right for me

yey this was fun

Cavvies were in 16th c paintings


then became somewhat obsolete and you just had the flat faced king charles for ages, then someone tried to rebreed them starting in the states
Then someone tried to start breeding hte long nose that centuries of breeding had tried so hard to do away with again

Anns Son was one of the first most modern cavvies can be traced back to him


Then Daywell Roger who had a lot to do with the breed in the mid century


then today

I know of someone who is trying to recreate the Cavalier as it was (without all the health issues!)

we may have been lucky but sweep is the picture of health, bar currently going blind (and he is 14!) he's got a good heart and shows no signs of syrengomielia or any of the innumerate health problems that they seem to come with!

wowsers...very lucky

Recreating a breed based on dogs seen in portraits, surely the very definition of designer dog ;-)

Nope not designer...just trying to create the breed, without the health issues

Obviously i understand he is the exception rather than the rule but they are out there!

Sorry, I meant the original Cavalier. No criticism from me for anyone trying to breed a healthier version.

I like the height, movement and coat of the american/canadian collies, but I prefer the head of the English. Not the overdone fine type with the really small eyes. but the broader head with the softer expression. But I'm very particular!
And yes, lots of difference between different breeders opinions on what a collie is. I'd be interested really at what a mix of UK and USA lines are like.

Ahh the lovely Rough Collie - one of my biggest dog disappointments will be never owning one of these dogs. I love the early dogs (the first two pics) but after that ... :-(