More working GSD questions! Working Dogs

Just pondering a few things whilst out walking and training Yogi this afternoon

For those of you who have experience of both show line and working line GSDs ...

1) Have you found that working line shepherds have a higher prey drive (ie more likely to chase small furries/sheep etc)?

2) Are working line shepherds harder to "switch off" than their show line cousins?

3) Do working line have a higher propensity for training and working situations ... ie will they concentrate for longer, be more focused, have more energy etc?

4) Are the working line more like to develop an over protective nature (with people and property)? Are they more suspicious?

5) Would a working line need brain training as well as other stimulation and exercise every single day ... or can they be switched on and off?

Obviously, these are very general questions and I understand that all dogs are different and so will have varying degrees of behaviour ... but just trying to get a general feel about what I might be letting myself in for

I may add to the questions the more I think about it ;-)

I only have the experience of the one working line so will just base my answers on that!

The main differences are intensity of focus and the desire to work IME

Thanks to both of you. I really am liking the sound of the working lines more and more

Scout - I don't think I phrased question 5) correctly - in that I meant would a workline be as satisfied with two or three decent walks a day, interspersed with ball throwing/bits of fun training ... or do they need a specific "job" or training to do each and every day.

I suppose I am kind of basing my questions on the working collies - and even though there are massive variations in their drives and workiness, they all (the ones here) definitely benefit from a certain amount of sheep work every day. Just wondered if working sheps were the same - although, I suppose the instincts are totally different in the two breeds.

I am not a train-aholic and enjoy really long walks and exploring new places as much as anything - as well as fun training (and am hoping to get hubby to build me some working trial style jumps etc for this winter) - and was concerned that perhaps this lifestyle would not benefit a dog that needed formal training each day.

Also interested in the answer to that as I know hubby really, REALLY wants a GSD bitch. Course it'd be me doing almost all the training, walking etc so figured I'd best get researching.

I only really know working line GSD's
In our street I know 2 families who have littermates - 2 GSD bitches
1 of them has done clicker work and agility, she is a smart lovely girl, tends to be bossy to other dogs - she will never get on with Mia - but in the main a really nice smart chilled dog

The other one has had nothing done with her, she gets really minimum walks (unless the other guy steals her away for a country walk) she has had no training but she is pretty similar, totaly happy not to have a job

One thing someone pointed out about the bitch at agility is is how adaptable she is - although she is 'his' dog she will work for anyone - I know many can be 1 person dogs

Well in the main I've had show lines but have had some with real drive & interest in life & other who are happy to just chill most of the day. One thing I do notice those with real drive seem to need lots of different stimulation, unlike my friend's collie, they are not happy to do the same thing day after day.

Will your hubby be wanting a working line, or is he just interested in GSDs in general? And if he wants one so much - why would you be doing all the care? :?

What lines are they, do you know BenMc?

I see a real difference between Flame and Yogi (one obedience lines and one WG showlines), in that Yogi has a lot more oomph and is keener to focus on training and seems to really enjoy it, whereas I trained Flame to quite a high level at an obedience club but she always seemed to lack sparkle and as though she weren't that fussed ... although that could have been the handler's fault, as I was never that enthusiastic about town hall obedience classes either ;-)

I am quite pleased to hear that about the drivier dogs you have known needing different stimulus each day, rather than the same thing (such as sheep work for collies) as I am a bit like that myself and like to do a mix of different things each day with my dogs.

He just wants a GSD to be honest, doesn't really care about lines, it's me who's more interested in show vs working. His family had them when he was younger and he seems to have some idealistic idea of them. And I'd be doing all the walks and training because he works full time, I don't. He can also be deployed for 6 months or more, made to work ridiculously long hours and various other things. Plus training is something I really enjoy doing while he just likes the end result Don't get me wrong, he steps up to the plate when I can't do something with Rupert (like walks after I've had a seizure) but overall it would be up to me to do them.

All sounds feasible Hopefully you will be able to decide on a type of shepherd, and a breeder, with help on here - as there are loads of knowledgeable GSD folk only too willing to impart their advice to interested parties In fact, I have always found other "GSD people" really enthusiastic about the breed and only too happy to help someone new to GSDs.

Good luck in your research. Do you have a timescale?

Thank you Our timescale is pretty much any time after Rupert's gone, so hopefully not for a good few years yet. Much as I'd love another dog I don't think it'd be a good idea to have another with Rupe the way he is.

I do NOT want one of these GSDs with the ridiculously extreme sloped backs and funny legs though, that much I do know!

Really interesting coming back to this thread now that I have had my working line Zak here for 3 weeks now.

So far I have found him to be less sensitive than my longcoat GSDs. He seems to have a very stable temperament and is exceptionally good around the kids - however, noisy and exuberant they are. He is good with all the other dogs and shows no sign of aggression, nor real submissiveness to the others. He is happy to say a quick hello to any visitors to the house, and shows no real suspicion or any sign of aggression (he is only 9 months yet though).

He has plenty of energy and is similar to Yogi in this aspect - Yogi is quite a high energy shepherd. Yogi's focus is better than Zak's at the moment, and it will be interesting to see how Zak's focus to a task develops the more I do with him.

I haven't noticed any real difference in their prey drives yet - as they all like to chase bunnies but I am working on this with Zak (as I can stop Yogi within a certain boundary). I have noticed though that (at the mo) Zak will look at the sheep with detached interest, but hasn't yet shown any signs of wanting to chase, and he is currently wary of the horses. I need to get him around the sheep and horses more though in the coming weeks to ensure he is bombproof around both.

So far, so good. I am impressed!

Hi K, I'm sure I have the dimensions and drawings for the jumps that Rob Roberts sent me; I'll try and dig them out if you want them.

From memory your new lad is about a year old? Normally don't jump dogs until their 18 mths old, but you would get away with the odd one for fun at the lower height / length.

HTH, let me know if you want the dimensions.

That would be brilliant, thanks Nick. Off to have a look at your blog to see how your little one is doing ;-)

What do you mean by less sensitive? are your others nervous around new situations?

Flame is not nervous around new situations, but she has always been what I would class as "windy" (even though I socialised her extensively from 8 weeks old. She can be a grumpy old so and so - but I think this is just her individual temperament.

Yogi can be slightly nervous around new situations and, for example, wets himself when going to the vets, won't eat for a couple of days when we go away and stay somewhere new, and doesn't like people he doesn't know stroking him - although he has never shown any aggression in these situations.

I don't know whether these traits would be attributed to the individual dog's temperaments, the lines they are bred from or a lack of correct training or socialisation - or perhaps a mixture of all these things.

Wow - Flame sounds just like how Zane is generally and Yogi sounds like you've described Yiannis. Although Yiannis changed a lot when he was attacked over 2 years ago.

I've found that Jenzi is very much more tuned in and switched on to her surroundings and focusses exceptionally well. Koda is sort of half way between the boys and Jenzi but focusses well, has learned to play properly, is now fully housetrained and has near perfect heelwork both on and off lead (all in 5 weeks bearing in mind that he was attcked when I'd had him 10 days so couldn't do a lot with him).

His confidence in and around the house has grown a hell of a lot. He loves kids, loves to play and be around people generally, although he is a little wary to begin with of strangers. Once he's had a sniff and realised they won't hurt him he's fine around people he doesn't really know. He loves to travel in the car and waits patiently by the door to go out. He also dropped into his routine without any problems at all and hafl the time at home I don't have to tell him what to do, he does it anyway.

He is a little nervy when out in an unknown situation and since he was bitten he isn't keen on other dogs approaching him at speed (as we found out on Sunday) although he doesn't do anything as such. Having said that, it took only a few days to get him accustomed to quite heavy traffic, cyclists, joggers and aircraft. He's still very nervy around skateboarders even if they're some distance away but we can work on that.

I can easily separate my SL GSDs (Zane and Yiannis) from my Wl GSDs (Jenzi and Koda). Zane and Yiannis, although already trained now, took a lot longer for things to sink in but onc they know something, with a little bit of reinforcement they never forget. Jenzi and Koda pick things up a lot more quickly in general but I've found they do need a lot more stimulation that the boys, not just physical stimulation but things to think abut also. I have been known to play hide and seek with Jenzi whereby she had to find my Son, Oscar. I emptied a kitchen cupboard and put him in there. Jenzi found him within about 15 seconds and he didn't make a sound.
Jenzi and Koda seem to enjoy more problem solving things where Zane and Yiannis prefer to be told what to do I think.

Given their temperaments, I can't say I prefer one over the other. I love them all to pieces for who they are and their individual characters.

It's nice at times to have the SL GSDs when I know I can relax a little bit after a bit of training and a couple of hours inthe park. I do find other things for them to do and we do lots in the garden too but it's easy to wear them out mentally.

Jenzi has limitless energy mentally and I sometimes find it difficult to find enough for her to think about. I can't do as much as I'd like with her because of her hips but we've done OK so far.
Koda, because fo his age I think, can still be worn out both mentally and physically. Recently though because of his injuries I've had to put more effort into his mental stimulation because I can't do as much physically with him as I'd like. Now he's so much better though (judging by the ever increasing norty level) I can increase his physical activity.
I've caught the training bug which is why I have the WL GSDs.

In the future, if my leg gets worse it could be that I can't have WL GSDs because I may not be able to do so much with them. But I know fo a man (goes to the local rescue dog shows) who has trained his dog to quite a high level of obedience and he's in a wheelchair so I suppose anything is achievable with a bit of imagination and a lot of hard work.

Wow, near perfect heel work in 5 weeks!

I am coming for lessons................................................