Heath testing/breeders with GSD's Health

I was having a look at a breeders website and I am not gonna lie... all the codes are confusing!

For example beside one of the males it says "Sch H3, KKL1, HD 'F' Normal/ED Normal/Dna Gpr (proven)"

Whaaaaaaat?

I had a look and found that the sch h3 is the schutzhund at the most advanced level? Why does that matter or is it just there as an achievement?

I found out normal is better with HD/ED than "fast normal" which has come up, but what is the "F" and what is the rest? Plus I thought the scores were normally shown in actual numbers?

Can someone help me?

The reason you are confused is that now with the pet pasport scheme many breeders are getting their qualification in Germany & these are all German qualifications. Schutzhund is a working qualification. Adult dogs in Germany have to have a working qualification as well as a health one to show. KKL1 is a breed survey including a gait of over 12 miles to prove the fitness of the dog. I'm assuming the F is fast normal. In Germany if you do not get a normal or fast normal for hips you cannot breed.

Ahh I see! Thanks!
Are the dogs best at schutzhund got the highest "drive" then? Or is that just their mental/fitness ability?

It may not matter to YOU but it demonstrates the dog is fit for function.

Schutzhund 3 is the top level of Schutzhund competition, after 1 and 2. It demonstrates that a dog has a good temperament (dogs are under scrutiny during the whole test and can be dismissed at any time); can track a 3 hour old track; had very good obedience and protection skills.

KKL1 is a Breed Survey, where dogs are scrutinised not only for conformation but have to demonstrate they possess courage for the protection test.

It stands for Kor Klasse 1 which means recommended for breeding.

KKL2 means suitable for breeding.

HD Fast normal is the hip score (good) and ED is the elbow score (good).

Hip scoring in Germany is different to that in the UK.

the dog has also been DNA profiled and proven to match the paperwork submitted eg from said sire and dam.

A show "Schutzhund" 3 is not necessarily the same as a "competitive" Schutzhund 3; it is not a competition except at Nationals or Internationals but demonstrates that the dog got at least 70/100 for tracking, 70/100 for obedience and 80/100 for protection.

There will also be a courage rating either "pronounced" or "existing".

A reasonable level of drive is required to get good Schutzhund scores!

The AD is the endurance test Ausdauerprufung, where dogs have to trot circa 13 miles with a stop and prove they can go on afterwards.

Ahh I see, thanks!

So if I was wanting a gsd without a strong drive do I go for ones with lower sch scoring parents? Or will there be more laid back puppies in a high scoring litter?

It is really tricky to find this stuff out without someone answering questions!

F normal indicates that the hip xray plates were sent to OFA were you looking at an American site?

Nope it was Conbhairean which is near me and someone on here were recommending them (hence I got the name)

Maybe they left of the "A"?

Should be A fast normal.


If you do not want a dog with high drive then do not go to someone who breeds for WORKING, and by WORKING I mean Schutzhund.

A lot of breeders will say their dogs are "working" just because their dogs do obedience, Working Trials, Agility etc.

That is not what those of us who use the word "working" mean!

So because conbhairean have a lot of adults that do schutzhund i should avoid them as they are more working dogs?

That is the kind of information I need thanks!

It is just a lot of information on these websites when you are never totally sure what you are supposed to be looking for (yet!)

No this kennel is a show kennel, nice dogs, but not dogs which those who "compete" in Schutzhund would choose.

So.... now I am confused again LOL

So why would you not choose those dogs?

So I shouldn't be put off that some of the adults I have looked at have sch h3 then? Even though I don't want a working dog?

I would not choose dogs from this kennel as they would not have the drive I like and want in a dog.

If you want a dog as a PET or to SHOW, then I think this may be a kennel to have in your potential selection process.

Okay perfect - not interested in showing, would just be for pet!

How do you know they would not have the drive?

I just do..........

Okay, I know you are like a genius, but that does not help me!

As long as I know I am looking in the right kind of area for the right kind of dog I am happy!

I just don't get how I am supposed to know?! As these all have schutzhund next to their name... yet are a pet/show kennel? So how do I know what kennels would NOT be suitable for me?

By asking.............

Ahh okay, so basically unless they say specifically on the site you ask them which they breed for?

Well it will be obvious usually by the type of site they have and the look of the dogs........

Ahhh so working dog sites have a different "feel" to them?

So Kesyra GSDs is another pet/show site? (as an example)

Not sure I have the "look" down yet to be able to tell on the "look of the dog", but I am sure I will get there!