White GSDs are undesirable? Discussions

I was under the impression (wrongly maybe) that all White was not a 'desirable' colour for this breed?

If that is correct, and if breeding for colour is not a good thing, how can there be KC accredited breeders of White GSDs?

I'm thinking that I've misunderstood something, somewhere?!

Thanks for anyone who can enlighten me

The white colour (please if I'm wrong, someone correct me), is an undesirable colour, as I believe it's a diluted gene.

its a 'masking' gene that covers up their true colour and pattern not a dilute

The KC Breed Standard on colour is:

Black or black saddle with tan, or gold to light grey markings. All black, all grey, with lighter or brown markings referred to as Sables. Nose black. Light markings on chest or very pale colour on inside of legs permissible but undesirable, as are whitish nails, red-tipped tails or wishy-washy faded colours defined as lacking in pigmentation.

Blues, livers, albinos, whites (i.e. almost pure white dogs with black noses) and near whites highly undesirable.

Undercoat, except in all black dogs, usually grey or fawn. Colour in itself is of secondary importance having no effect on character or fitness for work. Final colour of a young dog only ascertained when outer coat has developed.

I have absolutely no idea how people can become accredited breeders when they DELIBERATELY breed for non standard colours. We have (had) one in Weimaraners and they were breeding BLUES!

Whites (and long-coats) do pop up in `normal` lines, I believe, as the breed is a mixture originally.
Because these are out of the ordinary, breeding for them specifically gives a narrow gene pool. I think this is the argument against them, though personally I don`t have a problem with them as natural variations.

whites dont crop in in 'normal' lines be that English or German Showlines or Working lines you get mixed colours like that in poor breeding due to those type of breeders using white or sibblings of white in the breeding

But they must come from within the breed? The fact that they have been culled in the past doesn`t mean they are not part of the GSD heritage.

eta - the white gene was seen by the Nazi party as a dilution of the genes and barred in 1933. In fact the gene responsible is recessive and doesn`t act like this.
Perhaps we should go back to the `no good dog is a bad colour` theory.

The reason white dogs are not considered as show worthy is because the way a GSD herds & guards the flock means it needs to be a different colour from the sheep. Some whites do occassionally occur in a normal litter but it is very rare now we understand so much more about colour inheritance. However to my knowledge, for as long as we've been breeding so thats from the 50s. there have been people specifically breeding for whites who are not albinos. If these people are doing full health checks & are rearing their puppies healthily this is all that is needed for the Kennel Club to consider them good breeders.

I'd read that the odd white pup would come out in litters and were culled (). Also read that the white ones were used as there were easily identified against wolves..

Apparently these days there is a lot of inbreeding going on to keep the white colour, I personally think that could be why you see a lot of scatty/nervous white sheps like mine.

Yes, I`d heard the sheep explanation too.
So....
Maremmas
White flock guards, which are the ancestors of the Maremmas, originated in Central Asia. These dogs travelled with nomadic tribes to various areas of Europe. The Maremma as we know today developed in the Maremma Plains and the Abruzzo Mountains about 2000 years ago.
The coat of the Maremma Sheepdog is white, thick and heavy.
Amazing how they`ve survived really. What with being so like the sheep.

I think the Nazi explanation sounds more like the real one, since that`s when the cull of white ones began.

With white boxers it was not until the outbreak of the 1st World War that it became clear that white was not the ideal colour for a dog used as a guard / patrol dog – to say they stood out like a sore thumb when it was dark would be an understatement!
Was this not the same with the GSD..

German Shepherds are NOT flock guards. They"shepherd"sheep, by restricting them to feeding in a designated area by the Human shepherd & they"patrol"the line that he shows the dog & the dog keeps the sheep behind the line. They do not"bond"with the sheep the way a flock guard does, German breeds of sheep don't bond.

It is nothing to do with the Nazis. White shepherds don't work German sheep breeds because the sheep do not recognize the dog as a dog.

German breed sheep are very difficult to work with collies. Having watched a Human shepherd & his GSD work a flock, I quite liked the help the human gave the dog by throwing clods of earth at the sheep !!!

German Shepherds are NOT guard dogs by design, German sheep do not "bond"with the sheep the way a flock guard & it's flock/herd. German sheep need very strong dogs to shepherd them

slight off topic but.,,,
What breeds do they use on their sheep??

er GSDs........

??? The Human German Shepherds use German Shepherd Dogs

Some German sheep breeds are:
German Blackheaded Mutton
German Mountain
German Mutton Merino
German Whiteheaded Mutton

lol..
You have far to much knowledge about german sheep......

German Shepherds
Harzer Fuchs
Schwarzer
Tiger
Gelbbacke
Kuhhund
Schafpudel
various crosses of Fuchs/Gelbbacke, Fuchs/Schwarzer

I know I have missed a couple its a bit late to remember all

But I will say again that whites do not crop up in litters apart from those with poor breeding

Many thanks - this addresses my original question

Thank you to everyone who answered, I have learned quite a bit from reading this thread And I now know more about German sheep than I ever thought I would

Not all sheep are white