Sussexwolves GSD's Questions

Precisely, an ounce of performance is worth a pound of promise!

I can't watch videos without broadband unfortunately, so could you please describe what you aren't impressed with.

Talking of protection training/dogs ... if only I had endless pots of cash, I would be having this lad

http://www.a1k9.co.uk/Personal-Protection-DogGerman-Shepherd-569.asp

Interesting that they do no mention the actual scores for Hips and elbows, whether or not Haemophilia free or clear eye certificate............

I wonder how many people who COMPETE with dogs have purchased a dog from here............

In this video for example:

http://www.jinopo.cz/dogsav/mia/mia.php

The dog is told to bite the sleeve when it does not release, is hoisted up in the air by its collar (obviously to choke it off) and held there while being flanked. You can see the woman purposely pulling at the dogs flanks while she is choking it off. Horrible.

This dog is being sold as a law enforcement/protection dog. If it can't do something like release on command when biting...well surely this dog being offered for "protection" is a bit flawed. :?

Must admit i dont like what she is doing to the dog in that video. Think maybe they should work on the 'out' command with that dog before doing more bite work!

I like the pedigrees of the dogs at sussex wolves, i've been eyeing them up myself and plan to go check the dogs out in the future, though they dont seem to be breeding for themselves but perhaps to get some more czech lines into the UK? The Jinopo dogs seem to be pretty nice, at least thats the word around ;-), I haven't checked the vids.. i don't always agree with some handling techniques, but I've heard some good things about these lines and Dag really caught my eye. I love the czech lines they seem to be really clear headed with nice drives and generally good temperaments, but the working drive is kinda high for me right now so I may look at these dogs again once my kids are older and I have more time to put in with a dog of this calibre, and by then hopefully some of the progeny will have earned titles and such.. hopefully.Gives you an idea if these dogs pass on their ability to work etc. I prefer to see breeders working their dogs, but alot in this country still send their dogs abroad to get their titles and such. Not everybody is a capable enough handler to title a dog. It's more the fact the dog is capable of acheiving the title which is more important to me as is health and temperament. I have emailed the breeders before but never heard back from them, so at some point I will ring them to get some more info on the dogs in general.

Not the breeders of WORKING dogs!

The breeders of SHOW dogs send them abroad, the breeders of WORKING dogs title the dogs themselves in this country or abroad!

As do the people they sell them to!

And nobody knows if a dog is CAPABLE of gaining a title until it does!

Fair enough SB, it's mostly true, however if you read the site it says they titled one of the dogs to BH and are trying to improve their level of training capabilities. I'm not saying all working line breeders send their dogs away, but some do. Personally once I get into full-on working lines i'd immensely enjoy the challenge of titling my dogs.. i think its a great acheivement working with your dog at that level, however my goal is KNPV eventually.. eek.

And i think you misunderstood my comment about a dog being capable of acheiving a title, it was more.. the dog was capable enough to get the title in the first place, perhaps i should have been more clear lol.

I think though now that schutzhund etc is more easily accessible in this country there will be no excuse for people to send their dogs abroad to get their titles, however the nearest schutzhund club for me is an hours drive away.. i dont drive.. kinda sucks. The next one is 2 hours away. The UK is rather behind when it comes to this sort of thing, making some huge improvements now though, which is great to see.

A BH is not a "title" it is merely the ENTRY criteria required in order to enter a Schutzhund 1!

Which working line breeders in the UK do you know who send their dogs away to be trained?

KNPV is very interesting but statistically speaking, 90% + of those that qualify P1 and P2 are BSDs!

Many of us drive several hours in order to train and my nearest club is nearly an hour away, and I often drive several more to train!

If you want something badly enough, you do it!

I'm aware a BH is an entry level title, but it's still a title none the less ( as the general public see it anyway ). Maybe not up to scratch with others they can get, but its a start at least. Better than nothing at all. Personally a BH isn't enough for me. I think i've become a bit of a snob with working titles and such. Nothing less than a sch 1 for me now ( on a bitch at least).

The ones I know who have sent dogs away are ones recently into the working lines, I do know a couple of people with working line dogs who have been sent abroad for titles.

And yeah I'm well aware most of the KNPV dogs are Dutch Shepherds and BSD's, mostly mali's and mixes of those. Awesome dogs too, especially the Dutchies. Personally I quite like the idea of getting a p1 or p2 on a GSD. I've seen them it can be done. It's kinda intimidating all the things they have to do though, and having to acheive up to 400 points or more.. hard work. Shame its mostly based in Holland, guess i'm lucky in a way with my current situation, there's actually a high chance i'll get to give it a try someday.

Nobody puts BH after their dog's name on the Continent!

I expect the people who have working line dogs who have sent them abroad are not able to title the dogs themselves which for me is the fun.

When I went over to watch the KNPV a very nice GSD came 2nd

There are people here who regularly train and compete abroad in Mondioriing etc and there is no reason the same cannot be done for KNPV if you want it enough and you have a dog of the relevant calibre.

I've seen BH put after dogs names before though they dont really need to. But alot of people aren't aware you need a BH to even acheive a SCH 1 in the first place. The ony reason i knew to check out a BH was because i'd seen it on pedigrees on the database.. i was like.. hmm whats that? oh! didn't know that.. research!! I like researching, I think my partner gets fed up of it sometimes even though he's a massive GSD fan too.

Titling for me would be the fun too. I love training my girl, I think she has the capabilities for it, but I don't know if I do, so heck, maybe we'll try together even if we're late starters. Got to start somewhere!

I've seen some video's of mondio ring aswell. Thats the predominantly french/belgian sport isn't it? I've read thats pretty intense too. Personally I'd love to go and compete abroad someday when I have the funds and the abilties to do so. Thank who ever it was for building the euro tunnel and now a potential easier trip with the whole rabies thing for the pet passport. Could make competing abroad even easier travel wise. That was some good news.

How is your Working Trials Training going?

I had to stop for the time being. I moved away from the area where the club was. I'm hoping to get back to it again at some point though, in the meantime i'm working on as much as I can at home until I get settled here properly. At least my girl is slowly over coming her other dog issues aswell, through masses of perseverance. I blame myself for her not getting over that sooner and the situation I used to be in. Things have changed quite a bit since I was last on these forums though so hopefully all positive from here on out.

There are more WT clubs in the UK than Schutzhund clubs so WT may be more accessible for you, once you have sorted your dog's "issues" out.

I am surprised to see that they are accredited breeders but are importing a bitch in whelp who is only 17 months. I'd not be happy with this.

They are only ABS members because they have bred more than 5 KC reg litters-no club membership or other stuff.

The not breeding from bitches under 24 months sadly is only a"recommendation"so they are not breaking any of the KC rules. The SV certainly do not like bitches under 2 being bred from, but then their dogs are from Eastern Europe

Could someone please explain to me the main differences between the Eastern European GSDs (and breeders) compared to the rest of Europe.

The differences between East European worklines (further split into East German/DDR and Czech, each with their own purported differences also) and west German worklines vary according to who you ask I find. There are stereotypes repeated often about these lines:

E.g. East German dogs are more stable, better all-round dogs but won't make top scoring Schutzhund dogs, West German dogs are prey-monsters and 'points' dogs with very good nerve and hips, Czech dogs can be nervy and produce bad hips.

Looks wise East German and Czech dogs are known for producing big, strong heads and darker pigmentation, and the long coat gene seems to be more prevelant in these lines.

But I think that these are just broad brush generalisations which do not apply in many, if not all, cases anymore. E.g. There are some very strong Czech stud dogs which have produced produced many police service dogs (I'm thinking of this dog http://www.limasmythegsd.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13&Itemid=29)

In anycase, since the fall of the Berlin wall, East German bloodlines have been diluted so that it is very hard to find pure DDR dogs anymore, and Czech breeders are brining in West German dogs now.

So the divisions are very much blurring.

Just my thoughts.

That's a very big generalization, how many WG VPG dogs have you met ?? I've lost count of the number I have met & they have all been of very balanced temperaments & an on-off switch for work.

I've never owned a dog that hasn't come directly from VPG lines & never had one whose prey drive was so high that they couldn't be trusted