Working line GSD and Malinois Working Dogs

Does anyone have direct experience of both? What are the similarities and the differences (in general)?

I havent owned both, but i can tell a little bit from my experience working at the police dog training centre as i had the chance to be around both and make observations of my own by watching them train and their general behaviour.

The mals i met were very....hard (thats the best way i can describe it), i found even with the strong working line GSD's in training, once they were in their kennel away from work mode, they were still sensitive in terms of having a fuss/cuddle and a little play...they showed their enjoyment at having company, whereas the mals would happily have a fuss, but wouldnt ask for it and were very indifferent (this was obviously them in the kennels and they may have been entirely different when living with a handler).

Work wise, one of the trainers said to me before i started being involved in the training "just remember this or you will come unstuck...a GSD does as you tell it and a mal does it before you think it". I found that to be very true.

Not much info but the little I do know, i would always choose a working line GSD.
Are you considering a mal in the future, kirsty?

Dont know a lot about Malis other than what ive observed of working ones...........................they are so hard wired and I really dont think a breed for me

It may be worth contacting Paddy Driscoll at Teamwork training. She works a malinois in obedience and I expect it is a working line dog.

Thanks all for your observations/experiences. No, CC, I don't think a Malinois is the breed for me, but I do admire them and find them a very interesting breed. I only have limited experience with them on a personal level - and that was through the police too, and I found that they were like Marmite - the handlers either loved or hated them. I was told by one of the handlers that Malis bite first and ask questions later (these were working line ones also).

I think (I hope I'm right ) that Paddys was bred by Joanne Hill as was John Higgins dog and I'm sure Kamal Fernandez has one too of the same breeding

I think we are on the same wavelength Jeanette :-D There is something really attractive about the energy and alertness of the Mali, but they are probably a bit too hard wired for me as well. I love my sheps too much as well ;-)

Thanks Talassie. If I were looking at getting one I would definitely contact Paddy. Hmmm, perhaps I should invite her to come on here and tell us all about her Mali

Kamal has two Malinois, one of them was bred by Joanna and the other by John and Sue Rumble.

Just as not all GSDs are the same neither are Malinois.

Most people do not understand that, apart from the show lines, there are two distinct types of Malinois.

Those bred for nosework ie Schutzhund and Pistage and the others bred for KNPV and Ring Sports.

Thus you get very different types of dogs.

GSDs have been bred for decades to compete in Schutzhund/IPO/VPG as well as HGH etc. Thus they tend to be more "natural" nosework dogs than many of the BSD.

Very little is really known by the majority of people in the UK (including the police) about Malinois (or even working line GSD).

The two top Malis in Working Trials also like cuddles! They are no harder or softer than many of the very high drive GSD such as my own.

As for the assertion that GSD does as you tell it, well perhaps that person has not seen many very tough GSD!

As for biting first and asking questions later, well that is merely a symptom of a lack of control.

Most people in the UK have never seen the INCREDIBLE control of these dogs in Ring Sport and KNPV where the standard of work, accuracy and commitment is far beyond anything required in any field in the UK.

The main difference between Malis and GSD are that the former tend to be faster (not always) and more agile and of course lighter (weight terms).

I train with Malis regularly so have a fair idea of their make up, attitudes and outlook on life!

I knew you would come along and save the day for us all thankyou SB

Fab post SB - and total common sense. Thanks

This is an interesting American article about Malis:

http://bayareadogtrainer.wordpress....ican-public-belgian-malinois-look-dont-touch/


I think the Malinois in the UK are very different though.

A few years ago they were classed by the KC as Belgian Shepherd Dogs and could be interbred with any of the three other types (although the 'good' BSD breeders kept the types separate).

Sue

They still are BSDs, and inter-variety matings were done because of the very small gene pool in this country for all 4 varieties. But Malinois could only be bred to Laekenois, although there was one Malinois x Tervueren mating I know of (may have been more). Inter-variety matings are still permitted but only with permission.

More intervariety matings are done on the Continent, usually between the long-haired varieties, which is how Merlin inherited his Tervueren colouring even though his father was a Groenendael.

I didn't realise the various BSDs could be inter-bred ... well, obviously I knew they could, but just didn't think it would happen for widening gene pools etc. However, in last month's DT mag (I think it was) there was a litter of Terv x Groen pups, which is apparently approved by the KC.

My boy Callan (a KC registered Groenendael) is from an intervariety mating.

Essentially, they are (or should be) all the same type and shape apart from coat type and colour. (Working lines have diverged as they are, of course, selected on ability not looks).All 4 breeds originated from the same source and foundation dogs, and after WW2 a great deal of inter-variety breeding was necessary to prevent some of them from disappearing entirely.

I would disagree with Kita that only 'good' breeders didn't produce intervariety litters - there are some who frown upon it of course, but as well as the gene pool aspect (which was a difficult issue before Pets Passports were introduced) it can also be done to retain or improve type.

I've just looked back through Merlin's sire's pedigree and there are several Tervuerens at the back, on both sides, including his Gt. Grandfather: RE. Ndl/Lux/Vdh & Wld CH Buddy van Lana's Hof.

I think the intervariety litter you've seen in DT is Bijou's current litter - haven't seen her on here for a while, but she is a Dogsey member.

Edit: Should add Buddy van Lana's Hof was a Groenendael - with Tervs behind him (intervariety matings during the 1980's in France). His details are here:
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs_details.php?id=12856&new_lan_en

How interesting. Are Terv and Groen temperaments identical? If not, who does Callan take after?

Thanks Sue - very interesting.

You could always do limited inter variety matings, but a few years ago the KC (in their wisdom) made it so that the varieties were classed as one breed 'Belgian Shepherd Dog' (the varieties were not recognised), they were all shown in the ring together and any variety could be mated with any other and they would be registered as Belgian Shepherd Dog. Technically a Groenendael could be mated to a Laeken or a Malinois to a Groenendael and the puppies could be registered with the Kennel Club.

On 1st January 1991 the KC made the four varieties into four separate breeds with inter-variety breeding no longer permissible. This made things difficult at the time as many dogs in this country were from Groenendael/Tervueren matings themselves and as such some produced puppies of a different colour to themselves even when mated to the same variety as themselves.

Then the Kennel Club changed it again and made the breed how it is today. Sadly a lot of breeders who cared about the breed were put off and stopped breeding because of the mess the KC were making of things.

Merlins Mum: To clarify my previous post - I meant that 'good' breeders would not do matings like Groenendael to Laeken. My Groenendael was from a really good breeder and she was from an inter-variety mating of a Groenendael/Tervueren.

Sue

Merlinsmum, what breed was merlins dam?

Yup, I understand you now The breed club had a list of allowed breedings though - I had the list somewhere in a breed history book. The permitted combinations were Groen x Terv, and Laekenois x Malinois. I imagine special permission was given to Liz Richardson to do the Malinois x Terv breeding as at the time there were no unrelated Malinois in the UK and she was virtually the only one breeding them.