Dog To Coax Me Out Which breed for me?

I'm curious about what you said here. I didn't realize it was outdated! Damn, I must be really old school.

Mutual respect goes hand in hand, but it doesn't necessarily mean equality; how is it dealt with then?

What is a better method of dealing with dogs that demonstrate behaviors that I thought were dominant? Like: walking ahead of you, jump/hump on you, overly protective of strangers/territory/toy, nips/bites when confronted, etc. (I understand that doesn't necessarily leads towards aggression/rage, but I always thought those were displays of dominance which you need to curtail to ensure your own leadership over the dog?)

I'm impressed you have put so much thought in to what suits you, although I feel that with wanting so much you are in a situation where not many breeds suit what you're looking for. A dog is always going to be hard work

You want an easy going, low - medium energy dogs. These are commonly toy dogs or XL dogs but neither are suitable.

Low prey drive and no barking eliminates lots of working/guarding dogs and terriers. Although these things are all trainable working against a dogs instinct is always harder.

I know you like the tough fighting looking breeds but these can often be vocal and stubborn!

Breeds that I have thought might suit you could be a cokerpoo. Low shedding from the poodle and gentle nature/reasonable trainability of a cocker. Although may be a little energetic.

Everything I think of seems to contradict one point! I think going to a rescue would be great experience so you can get a real feel for all the breeds. Also think about going to a dog show.. you can meet all sorts of breeds and owners are always SO happy to be honest about the ups and downs of each breed.

Good luck in your search I know how frustrating it is when you want a dog so much but have to wait!

I think the first thing is to just get out of your head the idea dogs are being dominant and look at the individual behaviours and how to train for them Its a common thing that people have been told dogs are dom for so long they just believe without questioning

For a dog walking ahead of you
Not dom - they are most likely excited to go where you are going and dogs naturally walk faster than people
Guide dogs are TRAINED to walk ahead of people and they dont domonate them
You just have to train your dog to walk how you would like them too - generaly by making being close to you rewarding and teaching them that pulling on the lead dosent get them to go forward faster

Jumping and humping - usually excitment - teach your dog that you dont pay any attention to them until they are sitting nicely and not jumping all over you

overly protective - train them - for example if they are guarding you from another person then reward your dog for the other person being around and build up slowly so you are rewarding the dog with the other person right next to you

The thing with dom theories is it assumes the dog knows exactly what to do in every situation and chooses not to

that is just not the case

Think of your dog as a very small child, they dont speak english, they dont know what you want. sometimes they may naturally choose to do the thing you like, you reward them for that and they are more likely to do it again
Sometimes they choose to do something you dont want, this is just natural behaviour for the dog and he is not being bad, you just have to teach something more appropreate

There are loads of great training videos on you tube - I suggest having a look at kikopups channel - she is great

also google positive dog ttraining, clicker training, and operant conditioning and you will find a whole load of interesting material online

I think it's really good that you're putting so much thought into which dog to get

I also really think that once you start work at the rescue, it will help you refine the types of dogs you like most and which traits you find easier/harder to cope with.

There may well be, as someone suggested, the 'right' dog for you, just sitting there in that rescue, waiting for you...

Meanwhile, there are some great books that are very helpful. I recommend most of all 'The Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson.

Keep us posted!

WhichPets: Hahhahaha! You're right! I think that's my mother's plan all along, to create such a contradictory list of 'dos' and 'don'ts' that no dog can ever fit it. ...That woman is far more clever than I gave her credit for, hmm...

Maybe I should just give her a stuffed dog with a collar on it.

I am hoping as time passes I can show her the difference between our last dog and a healthy dog (the hell he created for us was due to the hell we caused him, the poor guy .) In which case a lot of those 'requirements' can finally ease up (especially if I don't find a dog by then).

Dog shows! Yes! That's a wonderful idea! For some reason I always thought that you had to have a dog to check them out ::...Wow do I feel stupid now. XD


Ben McFuzzyLugs (that made me snicker)
Hmmm good points. I always figured it depends on the dog too; like a nervous dog finally learning to move and sniff the trees when before it was afraid of its own shadow - well, that would require a lot more confidence and I definitely won't mind it stepping up ahead. It needs to build its self esteem back.

I just figured I had to be careful (especially with dogs like dobermans since I do heart guard and 'tough' dogs) to distinguish between what I thought was 'dominant' and what might just be 'idle curiosity'.

I can't fault a basset hound or a beagle to follow the scent of a rabbit for example, but I probably won't be as forgiving if a dog I know is territorial of his toys (growling at my approach) to walk ahead of me. I /won't/ choke chain him back or do vicious things to 'claim my dominance' or whatever, but I figure it is simple techniques of quiet, assertive leadership that works (walking first through doors, making sure it doesn't step ahead of me when greeting others, able to claim toys or food without aggression by standing on or near them until he calms, etc.)

Now the problem comes in /differentiating/ between idle curiosity and domination, huh? I guess that's where experience comes in.

Out of curiosity, does ignoring work during jumping up and down when it comes to heavy dogs? I remember a few years ago a huuuuge GSDx did that to me; I tried that technique but his weight literally knocked me back and I felt like I lost ground.

I would go for a Staffy or Staffy cross tbh, you'd have to find a cat friendly one obviously, but with the massive amount in rescue centres I very much doubt that would be difficult. The only bit that might not fit is every Staffy I've ever met has been super people friendly, so might struggle with being kept out of rooms where it's not allowed?

Re dominance theory - it really is a load of old twaddle! Dogs don't want to take over the world, they just want to be loved. All you need to do is be consistent, use positive reinforcement when training, set clear boundaries and teach good manners and the dog should get along fine.

Cadi
Please forget about dominance all together
if a dog growls at you approaching his toys deal with that issue, teach your dog that being around you is safe and nice and they dont need to guard
teach swapping items so they happily give up things
deal with the actual issue

teaching walking on a lead does not fix resource guarding

although if you train kindly and fairly then a dog expands his brain and learns quicer so the next thing you train will be easier

Ripsnorterthe2nd
I'm not always there (its where my parents hang out) and he can sit at the entrance.

Damnit, if he isn't allowed in the room he can sit outside by the door with his big sad Staffy eyes. Then I'll go and sit next to him by the door and we'll both look at my mother with big sad Staffy eyes. How can she say no that?? I dare anyone to say no to that.

Also thanks for the kikopups channel Ben!
I'm having a look at it as we speak. I did consider clicker training but I was wondering if it would interfere with horse clickers? I admittedly also considered incorporating hand signals in case of future deaf dogs (Bull Terriers <3 hell I think they're stubborn cause they can't /hear you/ half the time ).

I guess I did get wrapped up in that one theory too much. Alright Ben, I'll look into the other ways of handling! Thank you so much for the info!

for the jumping up
at puppy class we did it with the dogs on the lead so the dog couldnt reach the person and knock them over
someone approached, if dog bounced they took a step back, when they were sitting nicely they treated and moved on - next person same thing - the 'worst' dog only took 3 people before he was sitting nicely when people came over

Oh wow that's wonderful!

I was thinking of something like that but admittedly I just figured distract, push back, wait until calm then reintroduce (admittedly now I have the Dog Whisperer's tsssh! in my head to distract him from the behavior - which isn't exactly positive reinforcement, while treats and such are. And Milan's methods have been criticized quite a bit from dog behaviorists hasn't it?

Clicker training is great
Do try and spend time looking at positive training methods... it a lot more modern and better researched than all the dominane stuff. Using hand signals is not just useful for deaf dogs. Every trick/command that my dog knows is accompanied with a hand signal. This means it is easier for her to understand and quicker to teach (for me anyway). Dogs hear very well but they don't speak our language, using body language along with a sound command makes things easier for the dog to understand imo.

Dogs work for you because they trust and respect you but also because it pays! Using positive reinforcement, why wouldn't the dog want to do something when they are going to be rewarded, either with a treat, toy, affection or whatever. Tugging and domineering over a dog makes dogs often do things for fear of what will happen if they don't. Where's the trust there? That is negative reinforcement or punishment.

I too think a laid back, adult staff might be good for you. Rescues are full of them so there will be lots of choice. Not sure how well they do in lots of heat though, and they are definatley people dogs which need to be mentally as well as physically stimulated

I've been looking up on the Staffys more and they do seem very fitting - they are much smaller than the American Staffys (which is a positive at the moment) and since I know people who own them back home it would be great to have someone with actual experience on my side physically!

So...I admit, I've been watching Kikopup all day and...I'm convinced, I've been converted, she taught them 'leave it' without a single sound or word! That was insane! I admit I worry about my timings with the clicker and treat, but the more I watch the more it made sense....Hell, I already forwarded it to a bunch of people.

Thanks guys, I owe you so much already!

I am so happy to read that positive training is so much fun because you have to use your brains
I know people worry about the timings for the clicker but really even if you are a bit out it is a million times better than the time delay if you are NOT using a clicker

The best example I remember was my friend toilet training her pup - pup went to loo in garden, friend ran in to get treats, pup barked at fence, dug a little hole in grass and washed her paws all before the treat came to her - so she had no idea she was being rewarded for going to the loo

Just from your first post, i'd like to point out that no dog should ever be 'forced to run up and down stairs or treadmills' if it's too hot for exercise outside or not! Also that a dog going through a door before you or walking in front of you isn't trying to 'dominate' at all, as has been said- but it is good to have a level of control so that you can stop it rushing past you onto (eg.) a road, so a 'wait' or good 'sit' command would do the job.

But i'm glad you're asking for everybody's opinion and advice on which dog might suit your lifestyle- you've a lot of requirements so it's good you're planning ahead, and willing to open your mind to new ideas on training etc. I hope you find the right dog for you when the time comes

I agree with TabithaJ. While you're over in the UK and have easy access to it, purchase "The Culture Class" by Jean Donaldson and give it a really good read before you get home. It's a brilliant read

Personally if I were you, and seeing how you want an older dog, I'd wait and see what the rescue centres have to offer. Rather than looking for a specific breed (although keep breed traits in mind) I'd just be looking for the "right" dog. It might well be a crossbreed. But hopefully the rescue should know the dogs personality well and be able to match you with a dog who suits your situation. And you might want to buy sone babygates while teaching the dog it's boundaries to your wing. Good luck.

NCA1, 'forced' sounds a bit harsh, I admit. I just meant more indoor games (tossing the ball to the bottom of the stairs and have him bring it up.) Although now that you mention it, it may not be best for the dog's joints either. I am currently looking at methods of exercising your dogs in case we can't go out due to the weather (dry heat isn't that bad provided water and shade is available while we're out, but there are dust storms to contend with too, ugh.)

I guess my vocabulary is pretty off-putting; I thought the whole 'don't let the dog rush out' training was due to the dog asserting itself over you, but I'm starting to realize the connotation of that word is pretty bad and the whole idea of 'asserting' anything is /totally avoidable/ if done right.


Moon's Mum:
I think a part of me is totally convinced I'd find my perfect dog at a shelter too but the only reason I can remain patient now is by doing as much research I can - god I feel like a 10 year old in July waiting for Christmas! I mean look at all those awesome breeds and mutts! Maybe I should stop looking through petfinder...

As for the book, thankfully I have a WHSmith within a 10 minute walk. I'll go check and see if they have it today! Thanks again for the suggestion!

...Hmm, think if I offer a cheap/free dog walking services in my area/neighborhood that that would give me a fair chance to practice and get used to handling dogs? Or should I wait until the shelter?

Here's a good read for you
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die

I agree with the posters who've said make the most of being in the UK and get yourself on Amazon buying some decent dog books! I'm sure if you make a thread, people will suggest some "must have" books.

Btw if you're struggling with your thyroid issues I would really suggest seeing a doctor to make sure your levels/medication are correct. I don't suffer myself but from what I've heard of it, sometimes some people struggle to find the right level of medication because although they're on the right meds for the "average" person, their natural levels of all the hormones is actually slightly lower/higher so they a smaller or bigger dose than normal. I really wouldn't rely on a dog to "fix" that issue - if it was something mental like a lack of enthusiasm for exercise, then sure, go ahead, but your may find yourself resenting dog walks because you're physically exhausted, or skipping walks here and there because you're too tired (especially if you go for a breed like a Bull Terrier, given its strength) and then the dog having all this energy to release and causing issues with your family because its chewed your mum's shoes or dug up a hole in the yard. Get a dog because you want a dog, not because you want a tie to force you to get out of the house, because on the days where the weather is rotten, or you've had a rubbish day at work, or you just don't feel great, you need the right frame of mind to drag yourself out there and walk them.

It is less that I don't have energy and more that I need break my old habits. I've been living with my issues for nearly 7 years without realizing it. I used to think its okay to go from bed to couch to bed again; now? After two years of medication I realize how /insane/ that idea is!

I have been working on it as we speak, I jog 3 times a week and walk for 20-30 mins twice a day. I've kept my walks for nearly 6 months now without stop (yes, I am literally walking myself... ) Plus I am doing a jogging program (its been 4 weeks now) that will get me to running 5k in 5 more weeks - after which I want to push to 10k (as an asthma and hypothyroid girl the idea of finally being able to do it so incredible!)

It does get lonely on the road and listening to your music gets boring after awhile and I am not fond of running with people. Seeing those joggers with their dogs...it looked like the perfect match. Keep in mind that 'walks' are not the only activities I plan on doing either. Its the company, its the love, its the playtime (training, tricks, rambunctious attitude!) its the 'end of the day collapse on the couch with a satisfied smile and a tuckered out dog on your lap' high!

So far I've kept at it but its because I see it as a lifestyle change, not a hobby. I DO NOT want to go back to how I was before. This isn't simply a dog to get me out of the house (I can do it without a dog after all), this is a dog to be my side and remind me that I am not who I was 2 years ago. (Although him being there would make me want to go out more cause trust me, moving back in with the parents at 26 I am going to need /every/ excuse to leave the house as much as possible . "Yes mom, I assure you, the dog needs to go out twice a day for 3 hour walks..." (yes I'm kidding!))

I am becoming a healthier and more active human and I want a companion to keep me company on my journey.

ETA: Bull Terriers I realized are for more experienced owners due to their stubbornness and strength (a shame as that's one of the reasons why I love them, along with their clownish behavior.)

INFORMATION OVERLOAD!!!
Something you may want to look into would be have a wee glimpse at basenjis and german pinschers, of course basenjis are onlead dogs and they donts look very fierce....
However, do have a wee look !

Jay.

It acutually sounds like you do quite a lot of exercise. A 10km run is a long way! For that reason, I would not get a brachycephalic dog (one with a squished face like a pug or peke or boston terrier). They have trouble breathing and will not cope with such extensive exercise in hot weather. I would also think hard about very double coated/northern breed dogs for the same reason.

German pinschers seem an idea maybe or something like a wheaten terrier?