Are bulldogs actually bulldogs ? Controversial

Good post - well put

From the history I've read, the thing with the modern KC Bulldog, is that its look and type was created by crossing old bulldogs and pugs several decades after bullbaiting had been abolished purely as a show dog and for the way it looks. From that point of view, it certainly does fit the purpose of is standard, but doesn't have any physical or conformational characteristics of the old bulldog, so would be unable to do its job.

We dont know that tho do we, we can only surmise. Its a pastime thats long been banned thankfully

IMO it's undeniable without putting it to the test. Looking at its comformation in comparison to both the old and contemporary bulldogs and catchdogs is enough. They don't have sufficient angulation, turn of stifle or length of leg to generate the driving power to leap and catch a bull by it's nose. The overwide, bully chest will deprive the dog of the lung capacity required. The lack of muzzle is also a problem as the dog will not have a decent bite and grip, plus the airways are compromised which will also affect breathing and cause issues with rapid overheating. The catch dogs featured earlier in the thread have heads and muzzles much better suited to gripping and holding onto an animal, with a medium length muzzle and level bite. For me, the contemporary dog below is the true descendent of the old bulldog

Beuties in the eye of the beholder, if you can't see beuty in a living breathing animal then instead of looking at the animal look in the mirror

Not for all breeds, and not for a lot of dogs in the ring, just look at how so many breeds have changed since they entered it.

I wasn't referring to "beauty" as in the sense of " good looking"

As in health then lol, how long until that gets picked up on...

Looks more like a leggy staffy to me there are some photos of old type bulldogs with shorter muzzles in the old books - havent time now as ive to go out

Just dont think we should knock anothrr long established breed

It's an American Pitbull Terrier. I have alot of historical books on this subject, so I can picture the dogs you're talking about. Did you see my first link in this thread? http://www.workingpitbull.com/history.htm

I'd agree that the Apbt is the most likely closest decendant of the originall bulldog and still holds all neccessary traits and ability and hasn't been changed one bit by the show ring (unless you still count amstaffs and sbt's as pitbulls), the original bulldog wasn't a short, squat undershot animal it was a athlete built for a purpose.