Help finding the right breed for us, please help. Which breed for me?

No of course testing does not necessarily stop a dog developing HD but as we KNOW there is a genetic factor as well as an environmental one, it makes perfect sense (at least it does in the majority of OTHER breeds) for responsible breeders to test their breeding stock and remove animals with dysplastic hips from their breeding programme to minimise the likelihood of it happening.

It is a basic tenet of breeding, test and breed from the best.

Why gamble with puppies lives?

i understand and agree with all you say, but the facts are if you want a breed and they dont test, your options are limited.

If I ever bred a Boxer, I woudl hip score, but them my problem would be finding a mate for my dog that was also hip scored.

Thats why I say, its never as simple as telling someoen to run a mile, other factors need to be taken into account too.

I have to admit that my initial reaction advising David to walk away was based on the breeders reason for not hip scoring, it rang alarm bells. I also see from the breed website that they are listing hip scores, which makes me feel they must be scoring for a reason.

Equally though, I can understand that if a particular breed isn't tested for something, then there is no need to veer away from them. For example, the English Setters are hip scored and some are BAER tested, but they don't have their eyes tested. If some breeders started testing eyes but there wasn't a problem in the breed, they just did it because maybe they had another breed that was tested, and decided to do the same with the English, then I wouldn't avoid them, I would just want to make sure my pup was from health tested parents that had been tested for those problems known within the breed.

I suppose there will always be the argument that, if you don't test you won't know if your dog has a particular problem. but where do you draw the line? If PWD are not known for HD problems, the same as English Setters are not known for eye problems, why would you test one but not the other. I just wonder why some PWD breeders have started hip scoring though :?

Probably as with everyone else they have seen problems within a breed, or simply eliminating it beofre they see it, but with the PWD being a numerically small breed, its difficult to only recommend those who hip score, I know of one breeder that does, but has a few other problems ,, (so I was told) and I also know that breeders that do , will use dogs from breeders that dont and vise verse.

I have come to the conclusion over time (and with my breed being a prime example) that you have to look at ALL factors when choosing a breeder.

Yes you do have to look at ALL factors however whilst I agree that if for example your dogs are not on Schedule A or B for eye testing then testing is immaterial.

However there is no such schedule for HD and we know that the MAJORITY of large dogs are hip scored, so I can see no logical reason not to.

I would not have my ESS tested for dermoid sinus but I would for FUCI

So whilst there are BREED SPECIFIC health tests relevant only to them eg CLAD

This is NOT the case with HD. HD is NOT breed specific.

I know, but as I have said before, if said breed you are interested in does not generally get hip sored, you are limited in your choice, you either buy or you dont.

Ans as Boxers are very popular, peopLE buy.

I know many good breeders and I cant think of one that does hip score.

We have other serious problems in the breed that are being addressed, and they would be my priority , it would be nice to see hip scoring become the norm in Boxers, until it does , we have to go with what we have.

No point in telling someoen who wants a Boxer to run a mile from a breeder who does not hip score, because your chances of getting one that does, will likely mean you dont get a Boxer.

I did random search earlier, and found one breeder that hip scores all his dogs, another had 1 which was hips scored, I looked at over 20 websites.

So just as a matter of interest why are Boxer breeders in the minority where this is concerned is it because they are afraid to put their dogs under anaesthesia?

I have no idea, I dont think its anything to do with anaesthetic, (it could be in certain circumstances ) its just something they dont see a need for, I cant answer for them. even one of the biggest breeders we have and he is a vet, wrote an article a while back in the "Boxer Quarterly" on this topic and his finding were, .. there is not a big enough problem in the bred to warrant scoring.:???:

That's sad (the vet article) I would of thought any dog over a certain weight as adult would warrent scoring until proven otherwise...and how would u know otherwise without scoring :? (Wait til owners report crippled dogs?) :-(

Out of 802 puppies from 171 litters that have been registered from my dogs grand sire only 6 have been tested...

Hip scores aside, as I don't feel knowledgeable enough to comment on that. But the discussion on it relevant and helpful.

But on our own journey, to fill you in. Well we had narrowed things down to: -

Still probably not a pup, ideally 1-2 years old. And with regards to breed we had started to look at Labradors, ideally a yellow lab from working/field line (after meeting a friend's and talking to him lots). We like these very much. We also really like Golden Retrievers, struggling to split the two!
A PWD was also one we really liked and sounded good, but since they are so rare we knew that it would be virtually impossible to find one available over a year ago.

So despite emailing some PWD breeders, we pretty much gave up on the getting one and started to concentrate on deciding between a lab and a Golden Retriever. Then we heard back about a PWD available... so we are going to see it this weekend.

Thanks again,
David

Oh, fingers crossed then!

And other side 2 out 1122 puppies from 249 litters that have been registered with this dog as the sire.

Re Labradors:

When you say 'field' Lab, do you mean a working type, as opposed to a show type...?

If yes, please do note that young Labs are incredibly energetic and need a huge amount of attention. And the working types, as opposed to show types, are MORE this way.

I adopted a year old Lab and he's now two. He is only just starting to calm down and still needs an enormous amount of attention and exercise.

Don't get me wrong - Labs are fabulous and I adore mine. But just please do be aware that many of them stay 'puppy-like' until the age of three or a bit older.

Yes, I meant the non-show line. From what I gather they are meant to be a bit more lean and healthier.

Will bare it in mind thanks for the info.

I can feel a debate coming on

You have opened a can or worms on that one, about working labs being healthier than show lines ;-)

Not necessarily healthier but certainly been bred to go all day, and they do, so if I remember correctly your exercise regime may be insufficient for a working bred lab.........

I agree with this, a young working bred Lab is bred to do a job (retrieving obviously! ) and be on the go all day during shoots. I would say a minimum of 2 hours exercise a day would be enough.

Re health - I don't think the workers are healthier than the show types however and I'd be willing to bet it'd be easier to find a fully hip scored, elbow scored, eye tested, DNA tested show type than working type.

JMO of course, but I do have a bit experience as I've been looking at finding a good breeder of the show x working type for my parents next year.

Hmmmm, my friend's real world experience of a working one differs from your opinion. :? That said from what I gather she is somewhat of a diamond, even his professional dog trainer friend agreed. Said if he knew what it was he'd be onto a winner! hehe
So perhaps not 'typical' of the breed type.

Maybe not, many of us have "real world" experiences of working bred gundogs in various fields and they are no couch potatoes!