Sibe and mal recall... Training

as im doing my research, i come across the line "cant be let offlead"

i agree with this completely after reading everything about offlead dogs, i dont think i would own either of these breeds without having a secure area where they could get a good offlead run and be safe.

in no way am i telling all you lovely sibe and mal owners youre wrong that you dont let your dogs off, its cruel they dont get let off lead etc... as i know youre not wrong

but this is my question..

do you think if a mal/sibe is brought into the home as a puppy, and there are already dogs in the home, that come when called, that it is more likely that the mal/sibe will come back when called, as it will follow the others lead. rather than a sibe/mal pup thats bought on its own or introduced to other sibes and mals that have the same mindset?

do you think the pup would follow the other dogs lead while it was little, then when it hits the teenage stage go deaf? or could it be successfully managed and it would always follow the other dogs?

what do you think

My own experience ... brought home a Mally pup at 8 weeks, already had Lab and BC with good recalls, Mally was off lead from day one and always had excellent recall and still does (she's now 7) she never went through the naughty phase that many all breed dogs do where they run past you or nearly come back - has always been rock solid - we wonder if we trained super well to paranoia after what we read

Also took on a Mally boy at 3 years old who had never been off lead in his life ... luckily food obsessed so easily trained ... his recall was as good as most dogs I ever owned, but he would sometimes look at me and say "hang on a sec" and finish sniffing before returning.

Sorry I can't answer the query but just in case this is of interest:


There is a beautiful Malamute at our local park. The first time I saw him he was off leash with another dog, a Lab. I asked his owner about the recall, and he said he was happy to let him off leash when the other dog was there - because the Lab had really good recall so when the Lab came back, the Malamute followed him.

Then, a few weeks later, I saw the owner and the Malamute - without the Lab. The Mal and my dog were playing for a bit. Later on, Dex and I were meandering through the park when suddenly the Mal appeared around a corner - with no owner in site! He'd wandered off and yep, refused to return.... (not that this specific to Mals, my Lab is the same).

Then the owner caught up with us and put the Mal on an extending lead - the Mal is huge. He literally DRAGGED the guy off to the point where the guy was falling over.

I think if all the breed clubs advise that these breeds should not be let off then this view may be supported by the knowledge and experience of many.

You will ALWAYS get "atypical" specimens of all breeds, I LOVE Malamutes, but I would NEVER have one as I would not let it off the lead which would mean that I would have to run myself etc.

My view is, I did not get a dog to run myself.........

I have no knowledge of Mal or Sibe recall but when I read the title I thought it meant recall as in the recall of faulty goods. My neighbour had her Honda recalled a year or so ago.

ok I'm sorry, I'm nuts, I know

Whenever this issue comes up, I always post the same response. Every single Siberian Husky-related organisation IN THE WORLD holds the same strong opinion that huskies should never be let offlead in unenclosed areas. They do not do this for fun, or because (as I have seen expressed by some) they can't be bothered to train their dogs. Their opinion is based upon cold, hard, tragic facts. We've been interested in the breed for 20 years now, and every single year we have met people who have had Sibes killed on the roads, shot by farmers or whose dogs have simply disappeared into thin air. In every single case, the distraught owners say a very similar thing - "I don't understand, he/she had always come back when called before!"
The Chukchi people, from whose sled dogs the modern Siberian Husky is descended, used the dogs as sled dogs in the winter, but in summer time, the dogs were let loose round their villages and left to forage for food themselves. This meant that they became extremely efficient hunters with a very independent turn of mind. These traits are still very much to the fore in modern Siberians.
Our dogs are all trained to recall, but the reality is that I know that their recall can never be trusted completely and so I would never let them offlead in unenclosed areas.

A personal experience which illustrates the problem:
Years ago, when we first started in the breed, we sold one of the pups from our first litter to a lovely lady who had a husky collie cross which she worked very successfully in obedience and agility. She was an absolutely brilliant dog trainer, and was determined to get her pup, Quilla, involved in obedience trials and agility competitions, while being aware of the breed's issues and ensuring Quilla's safety every step of the way.

From a baby puppy, Quilla was off-lead in safe situations, learned obedience and, from the age of two, started to take part in agility competitions as well with great success. I have never, ever seen such an obedient husky as Quilla and her relationship with her owner had to be seen to be believed.
Then one day, at the age of six, she spotted something interesting, jumped the fence into the neighbour's garden (something she had never done before) and ran towards the neighbour's open gate. The owner called her back immediately and for the first (and last) time ever, Quilla ignored her call, and ran out of the gate straight under the wheels of a car. She was killed instantly.

That is all it takes - one time in a thousand.

Mick

oh thats so sad :-( i get what you say completely, even with my own dogs i wont let them off somewhere if i dont think its safe, as even though they do come back, their is always a chance they wont. obviously if i had one of these dogs, the areas i have my dogs offlead no would not be considered "safe" for a husky, as there is lifestock about, and i wouldnt put that risk on my dog. just out of interest whats the longest long line you can buy?

What Mick said

Most sibe pups I know have a period off lead when they are babies. They always come back when called and lull owners into a false sense of security. When the 'grace period' is over they will 'flip you the paw' as they become a dot on the horizon.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule. I know hundreds of Siberian Huskies. Of them I have met two who could be classed as 'semi reliable' off lead. But as Mick illustrates in the example above, there is always a risk even with an expertly trained sibe.

Take care.

Seoniad.

My guys zoom the fields on a 90ft tracking lead. Lovely man from e-bay makes them up for me

They have a 30ft, 50ft and 60ft one as well.

Take care.

Seoniad.

Sibes are a common site around our way now, many in what I would consider inappropriate pet homes. You see them as well behaved pups off-lead, owners are caring but most are ignorant about the breed, keen to tell you how the breeder's dogs had great recall & were allowed off-lead. By the time they're adolescent most are on extending leads & don't get the level of exercise they need.
Irresponsible breeders make me fume & either care more about the £'s than the pups or don't have the knowledge themselves - or both!

Why not consider canicross or running them on a bike or scooter? That's what we do with our Ute's when they can't safely be let off-lead. Hard work but keeps you all fit

I've a husky cross here who has excellent recall on his long line or in enclosed areas. But I also have no doubt if he smelled somthing of interest in the distance and knew he could get away, he wouldn't give me a second thought.

He's a rescue that was lucky to escape the farmer's wrath after killing lambs. Got rehomed to someone who seemed to take on board all the warnings about no offlead/careful around livestock. He was back at the rescue a few months later for "not coming back for hours on end" whilst out walking and turns out he also killed two of the owner's relatives ducks.

He gets to run lots in cooler temps with me on the dog scooter behind him. He gets to play with my other 2 dogs off lead at home and in secure areas. He also gets to mix and play with other dogs whilst out walking on his long line, which I attach to a canicross belt around my waist, just incase.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule; but I wouldn't want to be the owner grieving the loss of my husky/mal, in hoping that mine's is the exception.

As Mick has pointed out, it only takes the once.

id love to run them on a scoote or bike... was showing my OH pics on here of aviemore, its really something i could see myself doing... not sure he liked the idea that i said id need four or so dogs

Could you not say that about any dog though? Casper jumped our fencing once (too quick for my stepdad, who was watching him, to stop him), and fortunately ran straight to me and Kiki who were having a training session/1-2-1 play in the field next to the garden. Had I gone further afield with Kiki, he could have been another statistic in running out on a road. I've heard a few stories of dogs running out from front doors with an unusual lack of recall and having near misses with cars too. I know the breed is known for its poor recall but one time in 6 years is a pretty low success rate and could be just as easily applied to a Lab, a GSD, a spaniel, etc.

Just be aware that big dogs can build up a whole lot of strength when given the space! If I use a longline then I'm either careful to reel it in and out, never having lots of it slack, or I use it slack in an area I know I could just drop the line if needed. 40kg hitting the end of the longline has a pretty big force, and if you're in an area with grass or otherwise poor grip, you may find yourself having a surprise flying lesson!

no! its not 'poor recall' its independence and not needing humans per-say ,more akin to a cat.

so no,imo the same cannot be applied to gsd's labs etc.(although u will always get the exception)

The independence leads to a poor recall though.
I don't mean the same, in general, can be applied to these breeds but this one-off incident is not something that will only ever happen to these breeds. Jumping out of the garden and having a one-off (once in 6 years) lapse of recall isn't something I'd call Mal/Sibe specific. If my dog, regardless of breed, had one lapse after showing excellent recall, and this resulted in the dog's death, I wouldn't be beating myself up saying I never should've trusted its recall ever, I would think it was a very misfortunate accident.

My point was that this was one of the extremely few "reliable" sibes who had been trained consistently by an expert and knowledgable trainer from the age of 8 weeks. If a sibe like this can revert to its natural instincts without warning, what hope do "normal" sibe owners have.

Mick

We had the same example in Beagles too, with a top trainer who has had success in several fields with them lost one of hers for 24 hours.

People have to be realistic and remember what the breed they have chosen was originally DESIGNED for and that genotype as well as phenotype need to be taken into consideration./

Of COURSE we are all attracted to dogs by their looks at first, it is up to us to research PROPERLY and use the exisiting expert info to assist in our choices so that the risk of failure is minimised.

You can get 50 metre long lines that are pretty strong here:

http://www.trainingtrousers.co.uk/index1.html



Tragic about the Husky who got killed. The owner must have been devastated.