Are Alsations and GSD the same breed? Discussions

You mean other people have noticed? And there I was thinking it was only us.

rune

I had a mate with a German Shepherd cross Alasation once, that was a very unique dog, never seen another like it .

Love all your DOGS Claire and Daisy they are lovely.

I thought German Shepherds and Alsatians were basically one of the same breed. The name Alsatian was used as an alternative to GSD during the war. People were obviously very anti-German in this country and anything with the name German or having a German connection was vilified.

no basically about it ;-) they ARE the same thing .....chaz was havin a jest ;-)

I was aiming to be polite and diplomatic Tupac

What an extraordinary and bizarre remark to make Krlyr. We are not talking about me, we are talking about the origins of the GSD. You ask ANYONE who is into breeding GSDs who SZ1 was and they will all say Horand Von Grafath.

I find it so curiously strange but sadly very indicative of the female of the homo sapiens species that they have to continuously snipe and pick at, like an old bone of contention, something that they know absolutely nothing about, other than from the tittle tattle and backyard gossip that they pick up during their bitching sessions with their fellow females!

Where dog GSD'S catch the train ???....


At the Alstation ...

Exactly! Which is why I differentiated between the CSV and the Saarloos - I acknowledged in my post the original purpose of the CSV. You don't need to lecture me about the history of the CSV, I am intimately familiar with it having studied, and met, them for so long.

eh :? i wasnt being rude,i was merely pointing out that chaz's post that u quoted was a joke :?

i wasnt lecturing you

so you are trying to tell me they are not guard dogs? i mean in a REAL threat situation not as in 'gobby gsd' type guard :?

if the answer is no ,then woe betide u entering a property alone of a csv u are not already friends with!!

They do if you have a closed gene pool. If ALL GSDs come from Horand and his progeny and because he was put to one of his daughters, from those original dogs come every single GSD that we know today. Therefore they are all 20% or whatever the % is - wolfcross.

Let's say Horand was 25% wolf. He was mated with his daughter, who would have been at least 12.5% wolf, I don't know because I haven't got the information in front of me, but let's play devils advocate and say she was only 12.5% from her father, her mother had absolutely no wolf blood at all, that means that the progeny of Horand and his daughter will be 25 + 12.5 divided by 2 = 18%. From that litter of 18% wolf crosses, come wolf crosses bred from the brothers and sisters mating, that mating will produce wolf crosses of 18% and so on and so on, right up to the present day, meaning that all GSDs are 18% wc. It may be more than this, it may be less, but 20% is a roundabout accurate figure. You cannot dilute the original wolf blood, unless you outcross to something completely random, or indeed you might want to bring in some more pure wolf, in which case you would increase the wolf content.

The only way you could reduce the wolf content down to 0 is by constantly outcrossing, and if all the GSD breeders are to be believed, all their dogs spring from the lines of the original SZ1, our old friend Horand.

I'm not questioning the origin but how do you know 50 years down the line, a very similar build dog wasn't bred into some GSD lines? Nowadays breeders lie about the parents of litters - I've heard of numerous cases of purebreds being caught by a crossbreed male and those that look purebreed being registered as pure with another father's name. This is with such a worldwide-accessible, mainly computerised system so 50, 60, 70 years ago what's to stop someone lying about a litter then? Then you have your "diluted" line, which breeds with another line, introducing more and more "non-wolf" blood.
Even if this didn't happen then you still need to gain a better grasp of genetics because breeding wolf into a line 100 years ago doesn't mean every modern day GSD is 25% wolf.

Beautiful dogs - dogs, not wolves, but they are wolf crosses

But it doesn't, that's the flaw. In genetics, A + B doesn't equal half of A and half of B. It depends on all sorts, e.g. recessive genes, carriers, etc.

Just look at humans - it's believed (proved? I haven't studied this, it was just mentioned to me) we originated from Africa. Does that make me 25% African?
Canids all originated from one forefather, millions of years ago, so all dogs originated from the same place - does that make a Chihuahua a wolf cross? A Jack Russell? Infact, wolves aren't even wolves, surely they're all Miaci crosses?

Absolutely! But we can only trust that GSD breeders down the centuries have been honest and upstanding and would never have done that.

I have a perfectly good, but basic, grasp of genetics thank you very much. Please read my post !

No worries - I didn't think you were - I have not read the whole thread and I was a bit slow to realise it was a joke. AOK

It is a basic but very effective way of calculating the % of a particular breed though. It is used by all wolfdog breeders worldwide.

You could apply this to anything - to different nationalities of humans, different breeds of dog - it is a basic but effective way of being able to work out what percentage of anything you like in a mix of races.

Then you can't guarantee anything really.

You were!!

No, I would not enter a property here a csv was in occupancy without the owners being present, but then tbh I wouldn't with ANY breed! Assuming that I do not have criminal intent for the sake of this scenario, I don't think it would be fair on the dog. I'll give you an example: the last staffie that my parents rescued was a lovely chap, sadly he had cancer and had to be put down about a year or so after they rescued him, but the first time I met him, my parents weren't in the house, they were fiddling around doing something in the garden and hadn't heard me arrive. I rang the bell, and when they didn't answer, I guessed that they must have been in the garden somewhere. The dog didn't bark, but I could hear him snuffling behind the door. However, I resisted the temptation of opening the door because it just was not fair on the dog to do this - if he went for me, it would have put the dog in a very invidious position, and my parents in a dilemma. I just went and found my parents and we took it from there.

Personally, I would rather break into next door's, with their extremely gobby GSD, than your house with Tupac. And not because next door knows me, but because he is all mouth and no trousers, whereas from what I have seen of CSV's they most definitely are not.

But the traditional guard dog? No, I think this has been to a certain extent bred out of them. Does Tupac bark when people come to the house? Is he a sentinel?