Right as I know I will probably have loads of problems with this training - I'm just going to start myself a big thread for people to help me if they want... Right I have bought a Mikki Dummy - it's cheap so I can always buy another if he breaks it. I've just been doing the training of the finish and he holds it several times - and gets told good boy (lost my clicker! ) and a fuss then we try again. But after a few times - instead of holding it - he nibbles it. Do I have to make it more exciting to hold and if so how do I make it more exciting to hold without him mouthing it? Oh he's food orientated so how would I use a clicker to mark what I want without him dropping the dummy for a treat and also when I get onto the retrieves how do I get him to retrieve when he knows I have food? Thank you..
You are moving too FAST, without a plan, without knowing each step or understanding how to clicker train a retrieve, so you are setting yourself up to fail...................
Sorry to hijack the post but is it possible to teach this even if your dog has had nasty experience before with retrieve? Parker is not a natural retriever and I was told (by the trainer at the class I attended) to physically make him hold the dumb-bell which didn't work and just upset him and Cherry as she cried when she saw me making him hold the dumb-bell. I told the trainer she had got upset and she just dismissed this. He is clicker trained but I'm a bit wary of teaching this exercise now.
Absolutely yes you can. The key thing is A to have a plan and B for dogs like this to use something COMPLETELY different to a dumbell, it could be a dummy, anything you like. Did you ram anything into that "trainer"s mouth?
I have just ordered some dummies so am interested too. They will retrieve a ball with reasonable comfort but varying reluctance to drop or give!
I disagree Smokey bear - I have a plan, I am starting at the finish so I get the retrieve to hand. I don't always use a clicker when training, I like my dogs to know that a good dog is the same or a tidbit. The throw of the dummy after a retrieve to hand is a reward also.
Ok, I will post no more, ,what you are doing is obviously not working otherwise you would not ask for help, a great deal of help has been offered to you, which you have failed to acknowledge, that is your loss. Unlike you I have successfully trained hundreds of dogs to complete competition level retrieves in several disciplines and hoped that my expertise would be welcomed, obviously not.
Thanks Smokeybear, I have saved to a doc what you have typed and just read it through. We have retrieves with a ball outside, you may have noticed my post about being proud of hubby working it with our younger dog! I have ordered the dummies and think that to get this different to the ball i will use them to teach them to hand them to me, (i am torn between wanting a drop to avoid a slobbery ball, and to hand (although i dont think these dogs will be worked so bordering on the drop is best!!!) I am only thinking a dummy is best cos my dogs go in so hard on a bouncing tennis ball that I am now worried the risk of swallowing (read on one forum or another), so thinking retrieve with dummy is the way to go and doesnt matter if dropped!!! My two also at the moment are working better when there is an element of competition between them for one item, which again as pets is not a real problem whilst they are happy with it, we always have a second to throw if needed. thanks for the training advice, will start the dummies in reverse and have bought different ones to the one that we very first bought for Rolo that he wasnt fussed about before he learnt to get the ball!
You are more than welcome and if you need some more help feel free to start another thread. Good Luck
Thank you, I am so in two minds, i have what are two amazing dogs, that it seems a shame not to at least do working tests with them, but i have young children who command most of my weekend time as both are budding footballers and are doing really well, but it takes time and commitment. This and our working week works well in terms of our time outdoors and our ability to give our dogs a rich life in variety of walking environments, offlead and in countryside of differing natures, they are not pavement pounding on lead walks, which is great for them as springers. We are doing clicker training with them too and rally obedience training with Rolo but want to keep their brains active alongside their bodies! We have had compliments about how happy and contented they are and how obedient, and calm/chilled they also know how to be indoors. The challenge for us it to keep this up through puppy and adulthood, as novice dog owners, who have learnt more in 6 months than a lifetime! We so far have loved every minute of our decision to get our second dog so soon, but this i think is mainly down to it just being the right dog that found us! SLB, I think you need to have an open mind and try some things, the backchaining is an old and tried and tested method, but there is room to personalise what you want from it in terms of what you want the outcome to be, drop, touch, to hand etc as again it depends on whether it is pet play (no grimey ball in your hand, dont damage a pheasant or to get the dogs contact with you on return). My hubby got Rolo retrieving and used his instincts for what seemed to engage with Rolo, it worked for him and yet initially not for me, so some dogs respond differently to different ways and people!
But remember, you do not have to have competition as your goal, the journey of TRAINING the dog is a goal in itself and on the way you will learn LOADS about yourself and your dogs and how to problem solve. Dogs make you think about HOW to get stuff done!
I agree with SB-----you have to get a proper understanding of the word you use---and you haven't got that. Chucking the dummy as a reward is plain daft---chuck a ball if you want to use a toy reward. Go back to basics before you end up witha dog mouthing and doing it all wrong. rune
Well I just took him off up to the field to do some work with him, I found my clicker, started off by sitting on the grass with him and getting him to hold the dummy and clicking "hold". I did this only 3 or 4 times, then long lined him, and threw the dummy, I didn't even need to line him in and he brought it to me straight away - no mouthing. I did this a few times and then played a little game with him - I hid the dummy and asked him to find - he did and brought it too me. Is that good or did I do something wrong there? I do think his water retrieves were better than land ones.. but it is the second time we've trained with the dummy. Rune - I totally forgot about the ball - Leanne told me that as well..
Yeaah I know - we only did about 10 minutes of the retrieval then his Golden retriever came over to play so that was the end of that session
You have to weigh up how motivated he is for his retrieves. Flynn goes stir crazy for retrieving and I could spend a solid hour doing nothing but retrieves and he wouldnt get bored (but I dont because I dont want to risk him getting bored, I always want to end the training with him wanting more). If Louie isnt overly bothered then just throwing a couple of dummies will be enough for him. You know your dog best and you need to work out what might get him motivated and for how long you can train whilst still getting the most out of him. Hiding the dummy is a blind retrieve, thats something quite complicated for a dog who is just starting and you would ideally need whistle commands and directionals in place before you do that! You see, i'm a very impatient person and want results quickly and thats a mistake I made with Flynn. I didnt master one thing before I moved onto another and he only got confused. We're only just getting to grips with bringing the dummy back to hand without messing about - a very basic thing which I glazed over because I wanted to get to the fun stuff. So I have a dog who is perfectly able to conquer difficult retrieves yet wont bring the damn thing back to me! We'll keep trying different things to see what floats Louie's boat. There is no rule that says you have to use a dummy. You could use another toy that he loves to fetch, teach him with that first and then move onto dummies once he's figured out what you want him to do.
