To dock or not to dock.... Controversial

Does the breeder of your puppy to be fulfill the requirements of the 2006 Animal Welfare Act for docking ?

yes she does. she has bred before and is very sensible, i kno the lawsas u can see by the way i spoke about the veterinary surgeon doing it...

All mine are docked and I would not consider having a springer or Clumber that was not docked.

In the past 40 years I have had many spaniels, all docked bar one. The one that was undocked damaged her tail so badly that by 18months it was black and gangrenous from the tip to approx. half way along her tail. She had to have a GA to have the damaged tail removed. So what is cruel 18 months of pain and bleeding leading to an operation or a quick snip at 2 days old?

If your new dog is to be docked it will have to be done during the first 3 days of the puppies life and it will have to be microchipped by the vet and a certificate issued by the vet before the pup can be released to it,s new owner.

Steve

thanks steve that is really helpful, Wills will be my frist dog so all ur knowledge and advice is really helpful. u dont happen to kno of any springer spaniels with the prefix panamint do u? many thanks E

Panamint Elf got a second place at Hamptworth Spring test last years. I did not see it but it was apparently a be a bit of a looker.

Steve

:O there is another one Panamint Mint is the grandmother of the dog i hope to obtain. do u kno roughly how old Panamint Elf is? maybe its from the same litter that would b so cool
thank you so much

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I take it your breeder breeds and works her dogs, and holds a gun licence, and can prove she works her dogs.

One would expect that a breeder of working dogs would dock ALL the pups in the litter if the intention is for one or two to work,

But from what you are saying your breeder is breeding "pet" Springer's, and has no intention of working them, so how is she going to pick out "your" worker at 3 days old,

Not sure "having bred before " is a criteria for "knowing " what she is doing.

she and her husband used to work there dogs but due to MS have hand to stop working them, itt is personal preference if the tails r docked. none of the last litter were docked that i kno of because they were going into pet homes as the MS was just beginning to take its toll.

So do you or the breeder comply with the below.

Because if neither of you do, both of you will be liable for prosecution.

Firstly the pup has not even been born yet.. secondly i am applying for my gun license and am a trained air rifle instructor. As owners of WORKING dogs they have the correct cerification.

I prefer gundog breeds that are traditionally docked to be docked. But, if the breeder is intending to keep the litter undocked, I would NOT want to pick a random bitch from the litter and say "dock that one for me, please". I would much rather wait until the puppies are older & have started to develop their personalities and then pick a puppy I (and the breeder) felt would suit me best.

If this is your first dog, realistically you are not going be doing any heavy work or field trialing with it, so having an undocked pup should not be an issue.

Not to mention the breeder who would allow a stranger to come into their home and pick a puppy (to be docked) from a litter of 2/3 days old

Cant imagine any breeder I know allowing that to happen, :?

So one wonders if Panamint Hunter is going to pick or allow her breeder to pick a puppy to be docked unseen over the phone:?

Yep, exactly. I picked my pups at 5 weeks...were not allowed to visit before then.

I would question a breeders integrity to allow strangers to visit their newly born litter, 1) bringing in infection, 2) distressing the bitch, surely an experienced breeder would know this.

So the only other option is for the breeder to dock a pup randomly, to be docked for someone who may in the future want to work it. but how you are supposed to know which that pup may be is beyond me:?

Plus, another scenario, why woudl any breeder dock one dog in a litter that is going to pet homes, , in the hope that said new owner doesn't change their mind and leave them with a docked puppy, they they then find hard to sell as a pet:?

I'm in the pro-docking camp when it comes to working dogs. I prefer the look of a docked tail and I would have to be strongly persuaded to buy an undocked puppy.

I'm with Labradork, if you arent going to work your dog heavily then the presence of a tail shouldnt be a big issue.

i have known the breeder for four years and have come into weekly contact with her dogs throughout this time. as i have said before i hope to work her mainly as a hobby, the occassional shoot here and there. i kno i have much to learn on both the subject of breeding and of working a trail dog but i am hoping to prove wills to b a good dog like her grandfather before her.

Im really confused is the pup born yet of has the mating been done. Whos picked the stud dog?
From experience I'd dock but not sure how at 48 hours old you'll be able to tell which one will be the best suited to working.

I thought in your other thread you were researching and asking for information on this kennel, why would you need to do that if you have known them for over 4 yrs.


Still , most breeders I know would not allow an acquaintance they meet on a weekly contact, access to a newly born litter, as they should know the dangers of doing so.

Me too:?

We have two working springers both docked, we do not work them we have them as pets, they are both around 50% docked (I think), they have a tail around 6 inches, so think they have docked more than a third.

We do not work them but after seeing a family dog within a few hours of death because of a caught tail gone gangrenous amazingly quickly and only the vigilant eye of a friend and an emergency vet saving the dogs life, we were quite happy for the tail to be docked.

The breeder kept some of the litter for his own working and to train on for others and at the age of docking had no idea which of those he was going to keep, so it the pup was to end up as a pet it had to be with a docked tail as he didnt know so early which he was keeping for himself or for his list of waiting working homes.

I do wonder how you pick a suitable pup so young to be the only docked one or not, but then I am in the not a problem for the working springer to be docked in the first place.

i would just like to clear things up, firstly i was trying to trace more dogs with the prefix panamint, as this will b the grandmother of my pup, secondly the mating has not taken place yet, thirdly i am helping the breeder choose the stud, forthly i have been in contact with many kennels to help me choose a complimentary line for the bitch, finally i would rather know the dogs personality prior to buying obviously and therefore was considering docking only out of interest to see if anyone had a good working spring with a full tail. *phew* out of breath now