Springer Advice Please Questions

I think I've come to the right place!

I have been offered a springer puppy from a working litter - which is a really lovely gesture. The pups were born yesterday.

I'm almost certain I am going to say 'no' - which is not the answer I wanted to give, because I've wanted the chance to train a gundog from scratch for over 10 years, but I'm having huge confidence wobbles now.

;-) I will not be offended by any advice - just grateful people have taken the time to post.

So, tell me, am I just being a scaredy-cat, or am I being sensible?!!!

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  I have a 6ft fenced yard and a brick building that can be converted to a kennel
  I have seen dam, sire, sire's half-brother and grandsire working regularly
  I have been beating now for 3 seasons and have worked my heeler a couple of times, just for fun, on the beating line
  I did the Ladies Novice course at Sunstar gundogs about 10 years ago with a 6 year old Irish Terrier - again for fun - and we did quite well. Walter Harrison's parting shot was 'God help us all in trials if you ever get your hands on a springer'
  I have access to 4 private farms to train on and loads of local support
  BUT
  Although for the forseeable future I can work from home 3 or 4 days a week - who knows in this day and age what the future holds?!
  My heeler is an absolute pleasure to work with (we've just done CDex) and I've been pretty much spoiled by him because he picks things up first time. I've had to work so hard to get his CDex, because we had to go back to teaching the down-stay twice: once after the judge picked him up and once after he was attacked by 2 other dogs. I just don't want to risk spoiling the relationship I have with him, or resenting another dog because she isn't bright enough!
  I really feel that if I didn't make a really good job of the springer, I'd be letting all my friends down, especially if they let me have her for nothing and once she's ready, I've got invites to beat on 3 shoots

The final question - if I did go for it, I was thinking of picking the most (I know they are springers!) laid back of the bitches, just because the heeler is a (castrated) male and can be a bit wary of very forward, bolshy dogs.

So...are my concerns dealbreakers, or just nerves?!

Sounds like you would make a great home for any gundog type. Did you specifically want a Springer or are you only considering one because you know someone with a litter? if you really like the breed, go for it. The clincher for me would be knowing whether the sire and dam of the litter were fully health tested. If they are not, I would not touch them with a barge pole (same for any breed who requires testing prior to breeding if applicable).

I think LABRADORK makes a great point. The health tests are key.

May I also humbly suggest that you remember having a dog is meant to be fun

You 'sound' quite anxious about this new puppy, which is a great shame as you also seem keen on training a gun dog and say you've wanted to do it for a long time.

Perhaps a good first step is to see the health test results/paperwork - assuming you haven't already, that is.

Let us know what happens

I am sure if you can train a heeler you can train a springer

It does sound like cold feet and nerves to me, and as you say you would love a springer, and sound to have a great home for a high energy gundog, as well as having all the local help and advice, I would go for it

Heelers are the easiest dogs in the world to train - they just want to work and once you have their trust they will do anything for you!

The owner of the sire has just been on the 'phone again - I feel like a person on a diet with someone waving a plate of chips under my nose

I know dogs are meant to be fun I'm sure I'm just having a great big confidence wobble!

(health tests have been done btw!)
(yes - as opposed to 'vet checked' - although the vet has just docked their tails!)

;-) Heelers are so good - if you take them swimming, they wash their trunks afterwards

If you have any doubts about having the pup I would say don't.

Far to many working springers turn up in rescues because people do not realise the time and devotion that has to be given to training a springer. Usually it is not a matter of showing a springer how to hunt & retrieve but how to restrain and channel the energy, exuberance and natural instinct to hunt.

You have all the facilities and if you feel you can devote the time to training the pup I'm sure you will succeed but if you have any doubts I would suggest passing on this one and perhaps looking again in a few years time when you may be more confident.

From a person who has a working springer and two working clumbers and really should have stopped at one of each. Bit of a bit more than I could chew so now doing my best for all three of them.

Steve

Thanks everyone!

It's really helpful to hear what you all have to say. I have been invited to view the litter when they are a bit older and the breeder is really encouraging me to have one (and it's not as though he'll have any problems selling them either: I am incredibly flattered that someone as experienced as him wants me to have a pup and feels I have what it takes to make a good job of it)

I have definitely taken Steve's point on board about not taking too much on, because that is something I will really have to think hard about. I think with so much now flying round about rescue etc., the problem is it is water off a duck's back to irresponsible people and makes people like me over-analyse!!!

What lines are they..

I hope you will understand if I don't answer that last post. I am happy with the breeding behind these dogs and having actually seen sire and dam since they were pups and working regularly throughout the season; I don't want to be drawn into a discussion about various lines. To me, this is 'buyer beware' stuff - if you don't take it upon yourself to look into bloodlines and also make the effort to see relatives at work on a proper shoot (as opposed to a quick demonstration) then more fool you.

Regardless of lines, a lot of what attracts me to this litter is the regard the dogs involved and the breeder are held in locally (and not by 'fat bloke in the pub' but by real dog-people, if that makes sense) I have no doubt that being offered a pup is an absolutely brilliant opportunity and a very safe and sound start in the world of gundogs.

I'm just worried that there is all this expectation on me to do well and I'd hate to let anyone down.

I don't work my springer although she has done loads of work with control on dummies and will quarter and now stop on a whistle. Basically she is an HTM dog.

I was well aware of what I was getting so I had strategies in place from the beginning.

All her food was given in interactive toys---still is sometimes. I trained loads so that she was alway mentally tired (thats the theory anyway!). I also taught her to chill at specific times.

I have found her the most fun and dog I have ever had and certainly the quickest to learn.

I'd go for it and enjoy the pup and the training.

rune

We were all first time Springer owners once you know

For me its Springers all the way

They are just the most affectionate dogs, they crave attention and are incredibly loyal. My current springer is constantly glued to my leg!! (a bit of a pain actually, I can't even have a bath in peace!!)

But - you have to give them the right environment, they need an awful lot of training and exercise but my God it is so satisfying to have a well trained springer that is a credit to you on the shoot! I don't beat, I pick up with mine and although this is going to sound awfully big headed - my spaniel is one of the most admired and best trained dogs in the picking up line You have no idea how good that makes you feel

It sounds to me as if you have all the right background in place, a suitable home and loads of people to call on for help and advise.

I started off attending gundog classes and now I help run them myself - like I say, we all start somewhere

Good luck, if you do get a puppy we want regular updates

I don't know if anyone else agrees with this or not but it has been my experience that a dog over a bitch responds better to a female handler? Well, certainly the case for me anyway!

Were the sire and dam health checked?

I know you don't want to get involved in this type of discussion but I can assure it is important. I made the mistake of convincing myself the breeder and family were fine so everything is fine and my Springer has a congenital eye defect that could have caused total blindness. Not a rare thing in Springers that have not been health checked.

Other than that I agree with Steve. A Springer is a dog who needs 90% of your time and attention. If you have any doubts I would say don't do it.

I think you are putting far too much pressure on yourself to succeed in the trailing field. Would you be taking it on purely as a gundog? Would it matter to you if the dog was not a success? Would you still be happy to have a lovely pet? If not, then you will be putting too much pressure on the dog as well and this isn't the puppy for you.

Good points - although I have absolutely no intention of doing field trials (I do working trials with Dill, my heeler though) That definitely would be piling on the pressure with my first ever gundog

I have to be realistic though: this is (hopefully) a 12yr+ commitment and I'm not being fair to myself or the dog if I don't play Devil's Advocate and look at it from all anlges.

I did breed rescue for Irish Terriers for several years and I know the grillings I gave other people ;-) and having had dogs all my life, I know exactly how much you need to put in. I love training and problem-solving and to own a dog from a puppy (the last 3 have been rescues) and see what we could do together is a dream for me.

Over the past 3 seasons, I've really got into beating and the dog would come out beating with me. It is important that the dog will do this, because beating is one of the few chances I get to get out of the house and hang out with my friends. It may sound like a trivial point to some, but try living by yourself in a rural area and you will soon see how crucial it is to have a group of friends you feel you belong with.

So yes, I do want a dog for a purpose and if for some reason he/she didn't develop into the dog I'd envisaged he/she would still be much loved and looked after and get lots of lovely walks; perhaps if he/she turns out as friendly as her parents, we could do PAT dog work or something similar.

As I said in an earlier post - health checks done

Sorry, just an impression I got from your posts but I will admit to being completely ignorant about the different terms used for working gun dogs!

I think, from your posts, that you'll be a fantastic owner. You've clearly put a lot of thought into getting the puppy & are very knowledgeable.

To me, your doubts are down to whether you can train the dog successfully to do the job it was bred for, or whether you'd perhaps feel you'd failed in the eyes of the gundog crowd you hang out with, if the puppy didn't turn out be a successful gundog. You've already said that if the puppy didn't turn out to be successful as a working dog then it would still have a lovely life & you'd find other things to do with it ~ so what's the problem? Only, maybe, that you might feel you'd let the breeder down, or because someone else may have successfully trained the dog whereas you didn't?

IMO you would be successful if the puppy had a happy life in a much loved home ~ that's really the most important part

Just to be clear, Pidge (and definitely not wishing to start an argument because I am genuinely grateful to anyone who takes the time to contribute and try to help) what impression do you get from my posts?

It's difficult to post on here sometimes, because you feel obliged to qualify everything you type in case someone pounces on it, or jumps to the wrong conclusion. Reading back what I've written, it does sound a bit like I'm being coerced into taking on a dog that I'm not sure I want - or trying really hard to talk myself out of saying 'yes', but if anything I'm feeling a bit "this is too good to be true! There has to be a catch!" and a bit "Help! A puppy! Is there ever a right time?!"

As I wrote earlier, I'm surrounded by people up here saying 'go for it!' and nobody is at all concerned about me not providing a really good home. Flattery is lovely - but if you surround yourself with it - there is a danger you start to believe all the hype;-)

Nobody (as far as I know) who posts on here has actually seen me work my dog or with other dogs - but I can assure you that I train witha great big grin because I love it so much and my dog loves working with me. My home is most definitely happy - and so is my dog (as well as being much-loved) Yes, I do make an effort to go out and soclialise because I like people too and enjoy being sociable - and wanting a dog that fits in with my lifestyle (total country girl) is, in my view, a responsible choice as it means I will be combining working with my dog and seeing my friends, as well as being a playmate for Dill.

I think you'd do a wonderful job, and personally if you think you have the time and energy to cope with an English springer I'd accept there kind offer if I was you.