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'White' added to the mini schnauzer standard? Questions

Discussion in 'Miniature Schnauzer' started by border pop, Jan 27, 2011.

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  1. border pop

    border pop New Member

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    BORDERPOP
    #1 Jan 27, 2011

    'White' added to the mini schnauzer standard?

    Mooching through the Kennel Gazette and noticed that white had been added to the accepted colours for mini schnauzers (unless i've misunderstood?), I was intrigued so Googled them. The coat looks finer and silkier than the harsh coat of the other colours. Is there a difference? Never seen one in the flesh.:)

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  2. Munsti-Sue

    Munsti-Sue New Member

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    Sue
    #2 Jan 27, 2011
    Saw a white mini at Crufts last year, have a photo of it (below) which I took as had never seen one before. Also saw one at a companion show in gloucester a few weeks ago, which again, did a double take on.

    [​IMG]
  3. Velvetboxers

    Velvetboxers New Member

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    Helen
    #3 Jan 27, 2011
    Theyre lovely
  4. Meg

    Meg Global Moderator

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    #4 Jan 27, 2011
    Hi BP :) yes it appears white has been added to the breed standard .
    White is not my cup of tea at all and I think allowing it is a mistake.
  5. morganstar

    morganstar New Member

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    Jacquie
    #5 Jan 27, 2011
    Hi Mini just a few questions,
    Looks like a sealyham cross to me. Has there always been white and was it considered a fault before, to be honest its not taken the KC long to recognise them which has suprised me.
  6. border pop

    border pop New Member

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    #6 Jan 27, 2011
    i knew they were around on the continent and usa. didnt think they would ever be accepted by the kc here tbh. they look finer coated than the other colours...
  7. morganstar

    morganstar New Member

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    Jacquie
    #7 Jan 27, 2011
    Yes to be honest it doesnt look loke a terrier coat.
  8. Meg

    Meg Global Moderator

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    #8 Jan 28, 2011
    Hi Jacquie :) no, as far as I know there have not always been whites ( certainly not in the UK) and I go back a long way . I knew Mrs Milsom of the Quarrydene kennels, one of the first people to breed Minis in this county and breeder of one of the first dogs to become a champion in 1939 'Ch Quarrydene Gretchen' . When I first started in Minis in the 60s there was only salt&pepper and plain black . White would have been a fault . Much later came the black and silver , now white.

    I heard where the whites came from but can't be sure so better not repeat it.

    I don't have much to do with the breed these days but spoke to one of the 'godmothers' of the breed a while back and she said the old guard of the breed would never approved white so I guess the newcommers have pushed for this.

    I don't like the whites for a number of reasons to difficult to go into here.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2011
  9. Luke

    Luke New Member

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    #9 Jan 28, 2011
    Google them, half look like badly bred westie's/westie crosses!
  10. Velvetboxers

    Velvetboxers New Member

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    Helen
    #10 Jan 28, 2011
    Purely out of interest, if White pups occurred in Litters prior to being "accepted" for shows & breed standard, what happened to them?
  11. Velvetboxers

    Velvetboxers New Member

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    #11 Jan 28, 2011
    No doubt they'll catch on now. Are they appearing in the other sizes? I must say I do like them.
  12. border pop

    border pop New Member

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    BORDERPOP
    #12 Jan 28, 2011
    I don't think they ever just 'crop up' in normal coloured litters do they like boxers?
  13. Meg

    Meg Global Moderator

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    #13 Jan 28, 2011
    Hi Helen :) by the time the breed came over to this county it had an established type and conformity and I am not aware of any white puppies appearing.

    I have heard tell that in the late 1800s when the breed was being established in Germany there were some 'yellow' puppies (a beige colour) and as with all breeds in the formative stage, there may have been anomalies which were usually culled as was the practise in those days (and one of the reasons I think it is impractical and undesirable to start 'a new breed' with any established conformity these days) .

    I can't say how the whites became an established colour, I don't know and haven't taken any interest in them at all, to me they shouldn't exist. I think some were bred in Germany and I heard 'things' from the USA but don't know how true they were.

    I personally wouldn't want any colour other than salt and pepper, for me the colour is part of the uniqueness of the breed. The grey interspersed with other tones, the dark mask with the white beard all add to the charm of the breed.

    Before long we will have some people cashing in and producing 'original and exclusive' piebald Minis yuk!

    As far as I am concerned if people really felt they 'must ' have a white dog at all costs there were other breeds to choose from including Westies and Sealyham. They should have left Minis well alone or if it was the breed of their choice settled for the existing colours .
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2011
  14. Sara

    Sara New Member

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    #14 Jan 28, 2011
    I have a preference for white dogs... well deaf dogs, and they're almost always white, so i'm very drawn to the dog in the photo... but I dislike when new fad colours happen in a breed, you end up with breeders just breeding for colour, and nothing else... and that leads to soooo many issues (like my double dapple Doxies)

    I've always liked Mini's and hope that this white thing doesn't cause any problems for the breed.
  15. Velvetboxers

    Velvetboxers New Member

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    #15 Jan 28, 2011
    I just find it interesting pups that would have been culled are now accepted for showing & breeding.

    I was told recently that the German Boxer Club have decided that White Boxers can be bred & shown. They are the governing council for Boxers.

    When you think of all the wee White pups over the years that have been culled & denied life just for the sake of a colour. Its sad.
  16. Meg

    Meg Global Moderator

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    #16 Jan 28, 2011
    Helen :) I can't say for sure, clearly I wasn't around in Germany 120 years ago. There may have been very few beige or mismarked puppies and what few there were could have been absorbed by the population not to be bred from.

    I see no need to experiment with colours in any breed just to satisfy a whim to have something new and different, there are enough dogs to choose from already in existing breeds or from mixed breeds in rescue.
  17. Kerryowner

    Kerryowner

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    #17 Jan 28, 2011
    Sorry but I would have thought this dog was a Sealyham cross too.

    Would there not be more likelihood of deaf puppies in breeding for white ones?

    Also you know how it is-if they are considered rare puppy farmers will jump on the market and breed poor specimens to cash in.
  18. morganstar

    morganstar New Member

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    Jacquie
    #18 Jan 28, 2011
    I was wondering about deafness as well, not sure why they feel the need to mess with an established breed either.
    In welsh we seem to have bred to the "red" side more than the white (if that makes sense) and were we used to see white with pools of red we have red with white collars.
    My line tends to be of the older type and have a lot of white on.
  19. Mother*ship

    Mother*ship New Member

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    #19 Jan 28, 2011
    Not my cup of tea, but then I have a poor example of a black Mini so who am I to talk! ;-) :lol: :lol:

    To be honest if they just cropped up naturally I wouldn't have a problem with them but if they had to be bred for specifically then I would be worried about how that was achieved. :?

    J.
  20. Velvetboxers

    Velvetboxers New Member

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    #20 Jan 28, 2011
    Sorry - was really thinking of White Boxers :) should have explained myself better :)

    Did googling last night & it appears the White Schnauzers only occur in Minis. That is thought provoking.
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