Are german shepherds still used to work sheep? And is there any training for them in the north of England? I have seen them mentioned on the Astra collie site but that is a long way from me.
They certainly do The Kirschental Kennels are world famous sheep working dogs Gwen Barrington(Brittas)used to have her GSDs working the sheep on her estate in Ireland, but she did have continental breeds UK sheep do not flock the same way the German Breeds of sheep do so it would not be worthwhile for a shepherd to have a GSD unless he had German Sheep Breeds
I think you would struggle in this country. I know shepherds in Germany (and other parts of Europe) still use GSDs for working sheep and to trial - but they have VERY different sheep and methods of herding to over here. My old sheepdog trainer did try Flame a couple of times, as he fancied using her in his demonstrations, but I think he expected her to have some of the inherent herding instinct seen in collies - so was a bit surprised/disappointed ;-) LOL. Do you fancy trying something a bit different with Tala?
Been wondering that myself! And, if British sheep are so different, then how come Border Collies are used all over the world?
British sheep are much livelier than their contintental counterparts, especially the hill/upland breeds, due to the environment they have to live in and the way they are managed. You may have 2 sheep to every 10 acres on the hill for example, whereas in Germany there may be 8 sheep to 1 acre. In certain parts of Europe, the sheep will be tame due to the fact that they are managed in a really old traditional method of the shepherd practically living amongst his flock and folding them at night. The GSD was used as a living fence to keep sheep in one area, and were as much for fighting off predators as herding. As far as the comment about BCs being used the world over goes, that is more to do with the method and capability of the dog, rather than the sheep themselves iyswim. A good collie can work sheep, cattle, pigs, hens ... anything. So heavy sheep don't prove a problem.
I was supposed to add that some of the British breeds are similar to German breeds, such as the Suffolk, ie heavy sheep, however it is more about the dog's ability. GSDs don't work like collies, never have done, never will do.
LOLOLOL Kirsty that's what I meant. The dogs were & still are used to keep the flock behind a line walked by the shepherd, they don't really act as guard dogs because if they move away any distance from the line they patrol the sheep would get into an area they should not be in. Historically the Hovawart was the guard/watch dog of choice in the farming/countryside. My late friend in Germany had sheep so tame they followed him everywhere when he was with them.
I was intrigued to read on the Astra collie site that they ran sheep herding workshops for different breeds including german shepherds. Also in the way Tala loves to run in circles either with or without another dog. She got on well with a friend's border collie who ran like that. Was the german shepherd developed in Germany to be the equivalent of the border collie?
In so far as they were sheepdogs yes, but they work in different ways, The GSD tends not to drive the sheep as much as herding them ie keeping them in a group & making sure they stay were they are meant to. I had a GSD with natural instincts to herd. When she was 18 months old she herded together & brought to me a herd of bullocks from the field we were in. Shocked me as all my others had been afraid of cows. My biggest regret is that my lifestyle at the time prevented me from training her to work sheep. Now I'm disabled & a pensioner its the one thing I'd have liked to do with my GSDs & haven't. I've done breed showing, obedience & many years ago working trials but never sheep work.
I am sure JoedeeUK can tell you about the early work of the first shepherding shepherds, but I would say that not really. GSDs have never been a herding dog like the Border collie is. It is hard to explain. I would be more than happy to send you two dvds to borrow - one is a GSD herding trial in Germany and the other is Year of the Working Sheepdog about a shepherd and his collies in Devon. From those you will see just how far apart collies and GSDs are in so far as the work they do is, and how they work. They are just poles apart. They work differently, herd differently and do a completely different job.
I was thinking their styles would be very different but wondered if they were bred for the same but different 'purpose' because of the different characteristics of the sheep with which they were matched (if you understand what I mean cos I am finding it hard to explain). By the way I am a great fan of one man and his dog.
