As I've mentioned on here before, before we got Otto (GSP x GWP), we had two English pointer bitches. I was wondering if anybody else had experience with these two 'nationalities' of pointers, the differences and the similarities. Obviously Otto is still a baby and his character isn't fully developed (and also it's just one German pointer and two English than I can talk about), but our observations so far: Similarities: High energy. Pointing behaviour (obviously) Very affectionate, cuddly and gentle (well, Otto is gentle for his age) Very similar body and head shape. Same needle-like white hairs that get all over everything (although Otto hasn't really started shedding in earnest yet) Both very comfort-loving - will not sleep on hard floors. I expect this is just to do with being bony, short-haired dogs. Both reluctant to get wet/muddy. We'd heard German pointers were keen on water, but despite his webbed feet, this is not turning out to be the case with Otto. He tiptoes round puddles like the girls used to. Differences: Different points - Otto is head up, Phoebe and Daisy were head down, in line with their backs and tails. They all point/pointed with one foot raised, though. Otto is far more intelligent - he picks up new commands very quickly and is just generally more on the ball. So far, Otto is less obsessed with hunting, although this is probably just because he is so young. He only recently learned that pointing is for birds, not other dogs.
I only have experience of German pointers. I thought the two did different jobs and were not that similar. :? German Pointers have been bred to hunt so are more stubborn, obsessed and intelligent as a rule, I thought?
Just a note for you pointer lovers ,there are 2 young pups up for rescue on the many tears website ,just says pointers ,not sure which type..
Yes, I know they do slightly different jobs as gundogs. But they're both pointers, and I think they have a lot of similar breeds in their make-up. In fact, I think the German Pointer had the English Pointer bred into it to retain pointing ability, so on the 'evolutionary tree' of dog-breeds, they're still pretty close. When they were on the trail of a deer, rabbit or game bird, you couldn't get much more stubborn/obsessed than our old English pointers. They are definitely bred to hunt! Even if not retrieve.
I've only ever met two English Pointers, it was on a grouse training weekend. Both were lovely dogs but very, very stubborn. If either of them even got a whiff of a grouse they'd be off, lines trailing behind them and their owners not far behind that! Not sure if that was more to do with their owners abilities tbh though! Out of the two breeds I'd say the English was more stubborn and harder to train, the GSP's I've met have been a bit more sensitive and therefore a bit easier to train.
Yes, certainly with our English Pointers, the hunting drive tended to overrule everything else! They were never really completely reliable on the recall when there were deer about. But temperament-wise they were also very sensitive. You couldn't have been shouty with them, loud noises startled them (some gundogs!), needed a lot of affection, and when there was no quarry to distract them they were very attentive. Whether it's his breed, sex or just his individual personality, Otto's a lot more confident. Otto hasn't really exhibited any retrieving behaviour, to be honest. When he's out in the field he covers the ground in a similar way and points at birds in a similar way, although he hasn't got the patience to hold the position very long, and he doesn't hunt in the organised, purposeful way that they did. Although, as I said, this may just be his tender years.
I very rarely see English Pointers, which is a shame because they are very attractive dogs. I think GSP's have a reputable as being a bit more trainable and versatile overall and thus they are more popular.
I don't know a huge ammout about EPs but... GSP's in germany do more than just hunt, point, retrieve but also track, and hunt boar etc. Also pointing breeds will often change their stance to hold the game in different situations. Some gsps are a lot more confident than others some will want to retrieve more than others - part is how they're bred - part is how they are trained ;-) . Were you EP's show or work bred? Sophie
well my Thomas is a 10 month old pup he is 75% GSP and 25% Border Collie. Pointing h'mm not really he likes to scan the horizon he brought a bunny back to me the other day not sure if they are meant to do that?? likes to chase the birds but one whistle and he is right back at my heel could that be the collie in him.? Water I can relate to that not keen on puddle he will do a back flip to avoid although he will jump in to the river to chase a ball. Short white and black hairs every where yip I can relate to that, on a short lead I can see a bit of the collie in him the way he will weave from side to side like my other collies all done this.
I've never seen English Pointers working, I dont even see them on the street generally! The ones I have seen have struck me as very sensitive dogs and (forgive me), a little bit dim! I know some falconers have them but i'm not sure how good they'd be in certain terrains. Certainly with Flynn, his main drive is retrieving but i've found him to be a very easy dog to deal with. He's not headstrong with his hunting (thankfully) so I can stop him or recall him fairly easily. When he puts his mind to it though he can be a very hard hunter but his strength lies with the retrieves, the hunting motivation is weaker. Speaking in general terms it seems to be the German pointers that are favoured for the various field sports from hawking to beating/picking up to deer stalking. Exactly what they have over the English pointers I dont know (like I said, never really come across any) but they have to be more popular for a reason. The pointers and setters dont make much sense to me. What do you do when you've shot a bird? Go pick it up yourself or send your retriever (another dog costing you money)? Just one dog that does it all makes far more sense! Our continental friends had the better idea!
Yeah, guess I have! But even in terms of falconers and even pet owners, the German breeds are more popular.
Not sure about Pointers, but I thought Setters were used more for counting than for shooting therefore no need to retrieve? If I have my history right Setter's evolved from the Setting Spaniels (as opposed to the Springing Spaniels which sprung game to be shot etc) and they were used to set the game so a net could be thrown over it so again no need to retrieve. HWV seem to be very multi purpose also, many of them are used by Falconers but also deer stalking which I find bizarre tbh!
I own an GSP & often use to romp the local moors with an ESP . My GSP would do the short range inner circle & the ESP would point the longer outer circle. Wonderful to watch & always use to flush the pheasants. I found the GSP is far more intelligent & therefore more easily trained. She is also a female & the ESP was a male .. enough said! lol
