Strange that you come down on everyone for breaking forum rules but you overlook borderdawn for crossing 5.1. Why's that ?
Not getting involved with all this backbiting But as a sidenote to the original topic, i've noticed in quite a few books and on quite a few tv programs that bulldogs (Brit/English/Real Bulldogs-don't see the issue with calling them B bulldogs personally!) that are U.S.A bred/in the U.S.A who look quite a lot healthier, larger, more agile, and less crippled looking. Maybe it's just certain lines but the breed looks in a much better state over there
Explain please?? Don't bother, I see where you are trying to go with this, no sweeping statements, made by anyone breaking any rules. Simply an observation /opinion, given by a member on reading te information given on a site. One would think after 40 years of breeding to get a standard, you would think , all dogs would resemble said standard. The excuse of "ancestors" given does not wash, because many of the "ancestors " on the site can only be a few generations old. Yet, many dogs (current) dont seem to fit said standard. Queen Anne legs, heads resembling mastiffs /boxers and bulldogs., That's not making sweeping incorrect statements, simply an observation of the sites you brought to our attention. NO UNIFORMITY IN THE BREED/TYPE!! that is 40 yrs old!!!
Also for the record....The statement that the dogs are not ''healthier cos they ain't'' is not an observation..... That is a sweeping statement maybe made from an observation of photo...
How recent is recent, before they become uniform? Looking at the official site, on the 4/5 pages of photos, there is a mixed bag of (recent) photos of dog, different head types chest/ legs. I dont need to show you, as they are there for all to see. whats one mans poison and so on. Is your breed recognised by the FCI, as I see you hold them in esteem. Sweeping statements come in all shapes ans sizes, to say " they "are" healthier than their counterparts is a huge sweeping statement on its own.
LMAO. Only a few generations old????? There are pictures of Polly, Dave Leavitt's foundation bitch, on there from nigh on forty years ago, probably 25 to 30 generations from a modern Leavitt Bulldog. So it probably does wash I would suggest you do a bit of research before you make more uneducated comments
LMAO...I suggest you read what is written before you make sarcastic comments on what others have wrote. The clue was in the word "many" Yes, the foundation bitch is on the site, but as a lay man looking at the photos given some of the "current" dogs, (not going back to far, by the look of the pics) dont ALL conform to type!! Its an opinion, you dont have to like it, thats fine, each to their own.
I could sit here and post up photos of the 'current' Bulldogs. There is only one, maybe two bulldogs that are in the photos you are referring to the site that are still being shown, worked or bred with - But i simply don't have the time or the energy if i am honest. I understand your thoughts on them not being 'uniform' in your opinion - That is why you don't own a Leavitt Bulldog but own Boxers, Boxers that have to wear winter coats to go out in the cold and by your own admission suffer from hip and back problems. Boxers that once were the great athletes and working dogs, maybe not uniform to your tastes but were able and healthy. Its down to personal preference.... I choose to own and breed dogs that don't suffer with crippling health problems over the human compulsion have things 'uniform'. That to me is more important than their cosmetic traits. The current Leavitt Bulldog is consistent in bred type, but the health is the priority over all else... The way the IMO dogs should be bred.
My poor wee babies, neve rmind, they dont care, they are happy and OLD!!!!!! old age does that to you , things wear out!! I think you will find that Boxers are still great athletes and amazing working dogs;-) Trouble is, that dogs get old, enviroment along with breeding can also play apart in what ailments they suffer. I am impressed that you have managed to "invent" a bred that will not suffer with such age/enviroment related problems at any stage of their life. Talk about sweeping statements, there's a huge one for you So you can say 100% that every LB that is bred and will be bred in the future, will be free from hip/joint problems throughout their lives.. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm , the bionic dog
LMAO. You've completely missed the point of what these dogs are about. They are recreations of old bullbaiting dogs where health and performance is prioritised over uniformity. Maybe you'd like to point out the dates, dogs and specific ancestry of the "many" dogs in the photos to quantify your point?
No, never missed any point, you are claiming the LB is healthier than the present dog , reconstructing the dogs of old. Given that the health testing requirements for breeding approval for Leavitt Bulldogs are exhaustive and that they are non-existent for the modern Bulldog is probably a good indication of this. Furthermore, anyone with a modicum of knowledge regarding canine conformation can clearly see that the construction of a Bulldog is detrimental to it's health and original function. I would have thought that was obvious??????? What I wonder though is how you can claim the dogs in their infancy 100yrs plus ago, were healthier then today's dogs!!?? Where have I claimed that?????? So the no concerns on uniformity explains a lot too. Explains what? I asked earlier if they where reconised by the FCI, no one has answered that yet> No. I doubt they would want them to either But then if you dont care about uniformity , then it wont happen, nor does it explain why you are so up in arms, when posters bring to attention the lack of conformity to the breed/type , when as you say...its not important. Hasn't stopped Dogues de Bordeaux being recognised by the FCI and KC. They're far from uniform. I show and judge them, but it's never bothered me. Maybe you'd like to point out the dates, dogs and specific ancestry of the "many" dogs in the photos to quantify your point? Nope cant be bothered It's not so much can't be bothered as can't.
Photo taken Oct 2008. http://www.leavittbulldogassociation.com/Photos/PETITs Vadie.jpg Taken Oct 2006. http://www.leavittbulldogassociation.com/Photos/IMG_0430.jpg Taken 2007. http://www.leavittbulldogassociation.com/Photos/Picture002zzxx.jpg Few more pics. (no exif intact) http://www.leavittbulldogassociation.com/Photos/Photo002.jpg http://www.leavittbulldogassociation.com/Photos/IMG_2957.jpg http://www.leavittbulldogassociatio...3127cce98548a4db2e100000027108Acs2jhk3auV.jpg http://www.leavittbulldogassociation.com/Photos/Cherry&Rosa4.jpg http://www.leavittbulldogassociation.com/Photos/IMG_0426.jpg Can you show me the "consistency" in type please.
They remind me of the wolf lookalikes in the sence that there're some nice looking dogs, but they're definitely a mixed bag. I'm hoping that the similarities end there, if you know what I mean. Whilst all these people are off creating there own brand of 'superior' bulldog, who's helping to fix the one they're all complaining needs it? The kc bulldog most definitely has aspects that need addressing...But creating an alternative, is not solving the issue. Unless that alternative is crossed back into the original gene pool.
No, there's no point in me showing inconsistencies in your breed, , when its already been explained uniformity is not "important" in your dogs! The trouble is if type is left out of the equation when breeding, you get what you see today, dogs that dont conform to breed standard. It is possible to produce dogs with all traits, needed in a breed. health/type and temperament.
Here are some photos of the dogs you have posted fully mature, when they a properly developed and you see the final dog. Also slightly better angles; when the conformation of the dog is not distorted. The first dog that you have listed as not having a ex if is in fact a very old photo; about 25 year at least but i am guessing -I belive that she was in fact on of the earlier out crosses. that would explain her inconsistency compare to the present dogs. Nearly all of the dogs you have chosen are young dogs one is in fact a puppy - Not a great comparison really. The Leavitt Bulldog as whole does vary in type and some breeders prefer the more 'bully' appearance and some like their bulldog to more athletic but they dont have to conform to the show ring very much so its not addressed as it would be if they were part of a Kennel Club - Like i have said the priority is about health. Also here are some more current dogs that are presently being shown, worked or part of the present breeding programs all over the world - These are not featured on the site: I have lots more too but it will take me forever - The bitches to vary slightly more than the males they tend to be a lot finer and slighter than the males but that is to expected from a bitch. I hope this have given you a clearer example of the breed as whole rather than the out of date photos on the LBA site. In regards to the FCI - I think i have touched on this in a previous post - No the Leavitt Bulldog is not registered by any organisation, it was tried in the past but we pulled away as there are too many politics involved - These big Kennel Clubs dont care about the dogs, just the money not our cup of tea - The Leavitt Bulldog community keep it small and person so everything is controlled and regulated.
They are so different though Jessica, a breed should be striving to look the same. I mean thats what the breed standard is for. A couple of those photos look like a Boxer/Staff cross, one looks like an American Bulldog type, a couple have heads no different from the English Bulldog, some of the fronts are shocking, worse than the English Bulldog, the sizes vary massively too. I appreciate what you are saying, I just cannot see from the evidence how anything can move forward with such variation.
