Discussion split from NI and Utonagan owners thread Discussions

yip! i agree !!

ummm response?:?

I can't comment on NI's, because I no longer know any. The last NI I knew reasonably intimately was 8 or more years ago, and she was nowhere near as wolfy as Hal either in looks or temperament.

I can do no better perhaps than to use my Hal to try and describe to you why these dogs are different - and by these dogs, I am talking about utonagans mainly, but also northern breeds in general - including pedigree Mals and Sibes, of whom I know a few. I also know one or two Huskamutes - and Czechies, although I have yet to meet a Saarloos in the flesh.

Based on Hal as I knew him, they are incredibly intelligent - more so that any other breed I have ever known. They work things out, you can actually see them watching you open a door, so that they know how to jump on the handle and open it for themselves. Not Hal but another wolf cross I had for a short time learned how to press the lever on our fridge to get fresh ice-cubes out, and also to press the lever for iced filtered drinking water - it took him just a few seconds of watching to learn this. They have an incredible sense of smell - I used to have a bloodhound, and I would say that Hal's sense of smell was better than the bloodhound's. He could smell a drop of blood on your finger from across the other side of a large room.

He adored us, his pack, but yet was totally aloof, hated to be stroked or patted, but would show his affection by just the merest whisper of a touch of his wet nose for a brief second. Everything was on his terms, yet he was neither nasty or even disobedient, he just was stubborn and would do not anything unless he could see a reason for it. When he was told to sit, he would frequently lie down, he didn't want to sit. I could see nothing wrong with this, the dog was quiet, why should I worry whether he was sitting or lying.

He would answer back with a woo woo and a curl toss. Many NI and Ute owners, and I dare say husky and mal owners will recognise the woo wooing and vocalising, the mumbling and grumbling under the breath, and the wobbly head and the deep sighs. I have never experienced anything like this with any other breed apart from these northern types.

Many are diggers - our garden, even 3 years plus after Hal's death, still resembles the Somme after the worst of the fighting. We also had a labrador who was a digger, but his efforts pale into insignificance compared with the 2 foot hole that Hal could dig in our lawn in less than the same number of minutes! He was always so proud of his holes and would lay down in them with a contented sigh whilst he busily excavated some more intricate earthworks with his nose!

His separation anxiety was very subtle - we were unaware of it until our neighbours told us that when Mike left him home alone to drive down to Hampshire to get our daughter from school,he would lie out in the conservatory and mournfully howl every 15 minutes as regular as clockwork. He would touch not a drop of water until Mike returned.

His eyes glowed red in the dark. So do Ben's. Tai's glow green, so did Hal's son's eyes, Woody, who we kept for a time before rehoming him to a farmer friend of our's when my daughter got sick. Don't know if this means anything, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Probably the most upsetting thing about northern breeds is their reluctance to reveal when they are sick. Hal was dying of septocaemia, and the vet could find nothing wrong. Even Tai is very reluctant to show pain or sickness, and it must be very difficult for vets when owners keep taking their dogs back saying there is something wrong, when they cannot see it or find it. I don't know whether Mals and Sibes are like this, but all the northern breeds I have had experience of are like this, although at the same time they can be awful wimps and shriek like a banshee when you are trimming their toe nails or having them groomed!!

Huge prey drive ... usually hate cats, but because of their huge sense of pack loyalty, their own cats are safe ... daughter's cat moved in with us a few months ago, and she was welcomed by Tai, although if he catches her out in the garden, he chases her up the fence and onto the extension roof. But in the house, he respects her space, even when she spits at him! Same with Ben ... but outside, cats are fair game and both will chase them.

Can't be trusted around livestock, although I did train Tai to walk off leash, to heel, past free range chickens. I wouldn't dare do the same through a flock of sheep, but I think with practice I could do it. Not a hope with Ben, or his father before him. Hal was terrible with all livestock, just went deaf.

Hope this helps ... I think if I had to sum up the difference between northern types and non-northern types, I would say they are the same ... but everything they do and are is always with a capital letter! They are larger than life!

And if you own one YOU need to be in charge ... you won't be, because they are always one step ahead of you, but you need to at least be in the same ballpark!!

No, no-one can unless they were actually there at the different matings, which I most certainly was not. But I saw with my own eyes the wolves in the barn - there could be no mistake, when you see 2 pure wolves, you know you are looking at 2 pure wolves. I don't know how long Eddy kept them for, she told a mutual friend that she would exercise them at night under the cover of darkness, but I know what I saw. She kept all her "pedigrees" in her head, she knew who did what, when and with whom. She could also tell the most whopping lies until she knew she could trust you. We must have driven all the way up to Dunham where she lived at least 3 or 4 times before she trusted us enough to sell us a puppy - she told us it was so that she could make sure we had the right puppy for us, but that was nonsense, she was very, very careful.

It's not the drama of having a wolf cross that attracted me, anything but, it was the thought of a more natural, and healthy animal that appealed so much. Unfortunately, things did not turn out as Eddy intended, thanks to certain people becoming greedy and jumping on the band wagon.

I find it interesting what you see as difference - see as dogs!

And that just says it all.....someone lies, till they tell you what you want to hear

You wont go much further than fond a stoic dog than a Terrier. One of mine dislocated his elbow, he never murmured. The vets said he would need a GA to put it back, he didnt require anything, he just stood and didnt move, no sound, no resistance.

I think you are reading too much into "his" behaviour Gnasher, when in actual fact its just normal dog behaviour.

I know, I know what you're saying ... but personally, I think a dog who can operate the lever to release the ice cubes on the fridge is very clever. The lever is very stiff, you don't just touch it, you have to put weight on it and hold it down for a couple of seconds before the ice cubes will come down the chute. This takes real intelligence far beyond any dog I have ever known. Even operating the water lever is clever, because it is not as simple as it sounds, there is some sort of delay on there to stop children I suppose flooding the kitchen. All this was worked out in just a few seconds of watching me.

No, not at all, Hal was in utter and total agony, the vet could not understand how he could have fooled them all as he did. You would have had to see him to understand, it was horrible when he eventually did collapse.

Absolutely - to protect her dogs! You didn't know her Tassle, you cannot understand. She was being plagued by the RSPCA, she was in dire straits poor lady, thanks to the greed of others who abused her friendship and then exploited her.

I would lie through my teeth to protect my daughter or my dogs. In fact, I did - to protect Hal. It doesn't make me a bad person. Eddy didn't tell me anything I wanted, or didn't want to hear. I knew when she was bull********, I'm not stupid!

Dogs do that though, dogs are riddled with cancer and literally drop dead without the slightest symptom. Terriers sustain awful injuries whilst underground, fighting dogs do, they dont quit, they are dogs. I appreciate you think he was "different" but he from what you have described, its just dog behaviour, and possibly some characteristics more prevalent in some breeds than others.

Our Dalmatian sounds like that ... including being able to open doors!
And you got Hal from Eddie?

well...if what u say is true(which i do not believe) so they should of been!!!

...u never answered my sibe question?.. what so called sibes did she so call breed

There is a guy who has taught his dogs a copy command - anything he does - he says 'copy' and the dog will repeat the action (within reason obviously)

I have to say - no one taught the Lab to push the chair around the kitchen! It must have learnt by watching the kids I expect.

Our late Dalmatian had complete white out on her x-ray. It was the worst case of lung cancer the vet and I have ever seen- just thought she was slowing down a bit - didnt show any significant symptoms until a few days before

Sorry - you do not have to lie - you just don't say.

You asked her multiple times about the heritage of your dogs....she told you different things numerous times....finally gave in and told you the 'truth'....and you stopped asking...mission accomplished.

...and the fact that you lied....why on earth would you expect anyone to believe you now when you lied before, thats how it works.

When you cry wolf that many times....people will not believe you even if you are finally telling the truth.

I really don't think getting pure wolves is possible without anyone knowing!
Dogs with some wolf content...possible...but crossed with all the other breeds to create the NI the content would be minimal even if, and i do say if there is any content at all

Dawn, you are not listening to me properly! He fooled an extremely experienced vet, more than one actually. He had septocaemia, the pain from which would be far, far worse than those suffered during a fight. The vet was, if it were possible, almost more upset than I was at what happened.

And operate a lever on a fridge to get ice cubes?

he was not the first...not the last and not 'crossbreed' specific