NI's Why Not? Discussions

I think this is a major issue.

Looking at peoples descriptions on the other thread, there is alot of difference. Someone who is new to dogs (or even to this type) who goes and talks to a person who has had nothing but positive experience with training or recalls etc is maybe going to give a colored outlook on how the dogs can be.

The one we re homed recently was brought as she had been told (and read on the net) that they have good recalls and are easy to train. I did go looking for the site earlier but could not find it, when I was having a look at one of the breed club sites, this was the information that was given.

It can be very misleading.

No I did not see them. Though I do know that the breeder has had the test done. Made known, yes, so far as I am aware there are only a couple of breeders who have had this testing done and from what I can gather it's not a straightforward process in this country?

A 'few' over a population of a 'few' thousand isn't really a significant statistic so far as maths is concerned. Perhaps if Kiba's parents weren't tested or had showed signs then I would be worried, but I'm not. Guess we'll find out when he goes in for castration, same as his hips.

This I can agree with. But if you meet more than one person and pet owners as well as breeders before you make a decision then that would lessen your chances of picking up the wrong people.

Yes you shouldn't /have/ to do that, but it's a sad fact of the world that not everyone is honest.

Were they at Discover Dogs??

its a simple blood test ;-)

thing is ..i wouldnt want to find out at castration

Don't want to start another thread/heated debate, so sorry if this is a little OT but what are the main differences between a Ute and NI? As in temprement, looks and purpose?

Edit: If its a VWD's test your talking about its a DNA test that needs to be done if you want to know if they are actually affected, carriers or clears. Not just one count..

... collie??? ;-)

In the Utonagon?

Oh my word you really dont get it do you. Do you realise a VWD affected dog could bleed to death with a slight knock or cut? Id ask to see them all if I were you. Not implying anything of course, but I would certainly ask.

Id have him tested BEFORE you consider any operation, please, I urge you to out of genuine concern for the welfare of your dog.

and to add to that, even if you have a blood test at the time that tells you in short and roughly how likley they are to bleed or clot, its only able to tell you 'at that time' and it can vary so its very important to know if you have an affected dog or not. Your vet needs to know this BEFORE castration as there are drugs which may be needed 'on stand by' for an affected dog being 'cut'

Here is why I would never have another.

Mainly due to you have absolutely no idea what you are getting. Without going into reasons other than temperament. The only similarity between my 3 is that they have extremely high prey drive and all can be extremely stubbborn.

We are lucky to have our own land and live in an area where we never meet other dog walkers. If we lived in a busy area I do not believe the dogs would get the excercise they need. Even on lead they will pull towards a field of sheep trying to get into them. Sacha especially can have major strops. This would mainly be for example at a show or training and one of the other dogs are taken out of the van. Liadan will hold a major grudge and once wouldn't go near my OH for over a week after he put some cream on a cut on her leg. Torin has a much better temperament and doesn't have an bit of badness in him. He is extremely bouncy and loves everyone.

They are not easy to train as they are advertised. I am not saying they don't enjoy it, they do, but they can be very hard work. We compete in obedience and agility and the slightest difference they will pick up on. They can also very quickly turn off and decide that doing their own thing is much better. It has taken alot of time and work to get as far as we have and I do know that they have their limitations, but am determined and will continue. It can be downheartening to see other peoples dogs coming on so much faster than your own.

My dogs do miss out on alot because of the way they are. A few examples are when at our friends they cannot go for walks out of their garden due to their house being surrounded by sheep. We train 3 hours drive away and often stay in our caravan for the weekend. When at the campsite I love to watch Callan my BSD running and playing with the other dogs. The ni's have to be taken out alone. 2 of them on longlines as I do not trust their recall.

I am not saying all ni's are like mine as there is no set temperament. I have seen many very nervous dogs which thankfully mine are not.

My dogs are not the way they are due to lack of socialisation or lack of training.

Yes I do. You've told me before and I got worried and that was when I asked the breeder about it to make sure everything was okay. Which it is. So thank you for warning me before, it's one thing off my mind. I have no reason to doubt the integrity of Kiba's breeder.

I think bearing in mind our lifestyle and what Kiba does and did as a pup, if he was going to bleed to death (if the tests on his parents hadn't been done) it would have certainly happened by now. My boy can be a bit accident prone at times and used to have a bad habit of running into barbed wire.

I identify so much with your post.. i feel so bad for my dogs as they don`t get the exercise they deserve or to go out and about with us.. as the little dog does due to being the way they are around other dogs... and small kids.

I'm not doubting you but just a bit of further info, there are if you like different levels, so an affected dog can have a really bad cut and be ok, countless times, then a small cut when the levels are down and theoretically bleed to death. This is why they found a genetic marker and why its important that a dog not clear from parentage needs to be tested before breeding....

again you misunderstand. My dog that had it had a few cuts and scrapes, but when he was castrated he needed a blood transfusion and was bleeding for 4 days solid! Then, in 1998 VWD was less known, it almost killed him.

All Im saying to you, is I would certainly ask YOUR breeder for the proof that all the dogs and pups she had tested were clear.

..i wonder if all the peeps with high prey drive,bad recalled n.i's actually wondered why they didnt just get a sibe or mal in the firstplace?...not that you would change now...but do you not feel cheated?

im lucky, my ni adores kids,recalls and is great with most dogs...whinges too much tho lol.

Talking to a brick wall I think. She doesnt want to know, she really does think this breeder is the bees knees.:-(

or clear x carrier

Edit: Should have said pups either came from a clear to carrier mating or a clear to clear. If from a carrier x carrier or affected x carrier or affected x affected there will be pups produced that ARE VWD affected.

EDIT: Your vet may offer to have your dog tested for vWD - Please DO NOT ACCEPT as this test will be a von Willbrands Factor Antigen Test by Elisa which gives variable results and can be unreliable. The ONLY way to be sure of the status of your dog is by DNA testing.

From a breed website; Dogs affected with vWD and shown to be so by DNA testing. From a genetic point of view, such dogs could certainly be mated, but only to a dog that is DNA tested clear. If such a mating was to take place, then all of the offspring will be carriers. One of these progeny, when old enough, could also be mated, but again only to a dog that is DNA tested clear of vWD. In this second generation approximately half of the offspring will be clear and half will be carriers, so the entire litter could be DNA tested to discover which are clear and which are carriers. An affected dog should not be mated to another affected dog nor to a carrier dog.


So, you see why its important to know.....

Well it is an expensive time of year, with presents, extra heating bills etc to pay

ahh ,but i was questioned(on another thread) how i know that gsd were even used in the mix..... i looked at my girls ears,body ,tail then heard her whinging...gave the game away lol