Cross breeding Controversial

I'm glad to hear it....I find it hard to believe that someone who loves dogs would not.

Some people may not - but we are not talking about those Some people - we are talking about the ethical ones who do care.
And again I say to your last sentence....WHY should they have to? if they have found someone breeding a litter in an ethical way - and most likely to be a hell of a lot cheaper than a Pure Pug....Why should they have to go for an established breed? If those pups are what they want - what other reason is there - other than sticking with breeds that are pure?

I have said before - and will say again - I have yet t see a decent argument, the only thing that people seem to be saying - there are all ready enough breeds (which IMO is not a good reason) to be against ethical Cross breeding...and again - I will state the Ethical....as you seem to be thinking that I am saying you should just stick any 2 dogs together if they happen to be nice....that is not what this has been about at all.

I think that this thread is an attempt to make you feel better yourself about the decisions you made in direct contradiction to what you have previously wrote.

There is no cross breed on this earth that serves a purpose better than a pedigree dog, none. Pedigrees were designed to do a job, even if that "job" were to be a pet. Crossbreeding is cheaper, and a way to attempt to procure more money by making what are in many cases false claims about the dogs and what they will be like.

How is crossbreeding cheaper. It should have the same cost implications of producing a ped if done "ethically"

There are breeders who will say exactly as it is. Show parents, tell the pros and cons. Everyone who has a cross hasnt been conned. In fact everyone I know who has crosses know exactly what they are, some just use the designer name since it is now so widely recognised.

How? Id have thought that was obvious. Most "puggle, poo," etc.. breeders do not health test, there is a HUGE saving, considering some of the breeds used and tests ignored, and almost every one owns both parents, because no responsible pedigree owner would allow designer crossbreeding of one of their animals. So they also have no stud fee to pay. They also usually keep repeating that same mating, just producing more of the same. I board these "types" all the time, I board a "Puggle" with a bottom jaw like a shovel, and a twisted spine, from the Pug breeding, he is crippled and eats off the floor, but dont worry he doesnt have a huge issue with breathing! I recently boarded a "Cockerlier" absolutely manic, from the Cocker, bouncy, full of life, only problem is the Cavalier mother was not health tested and she has the inherited heart defect giving this pup a grade 5 murmur at 11mths, what a delightful life the poor soul has to look forward to! GREED and nothing more!

Yes but that is those who do not health test, who are unethical. We have always discussed in this thread those who do. So that is not a valid point imo. It always seems to come back to they dont do this that and the next, well so do a lot of ped breeders, were trying to take about those who do.

Where is it proven there are no studs?

And that is a real shame and i feel sorry for the poor pup but the same again happens in peds and ur discussing poor breeding ethics. Thats not what were talking about. There are those that do.

I believe the breeder should always inform the potential owner exactly what they could or may not be getting.

I didnt say that there are not any studs, I said that they are usually owned by the breeder! Meaning they have no stud fee to pay.

You have no guarantee which characteristics these dogs will inherit, its a money grabbing exercise sucked up by gullible people, fooled in most cases into thinking they are getting something that is special in some way!! Or, in some cases, they just like the "look" which again is never guaranteed, but hey, if it looks good then it must be good, yes?

I find that comment very insulting.

There have been a lot of valid points and it always seems to come back to the buyer being duped.

And you basically did say there was no studs, its not an assumption you can make. everything seems to be based on crossbreed BYBs.

It seems every point is made on an assumption that crossbreeders couldnt possibly do this that or the next thing. When there are those that do and thats the breeders we're talking about.

So my parents are gullible for doing research on both breeds, meeting a large number of the dogs, seing the variation in them, searching for health tested parents, meeting the parents,you know what the list could go on but its not going to mean anything to you and im fed up trying to prove it because it always comes back to the same points which have been proven to not be true in all cases.

And every dog is special

Well I think so.

People can do loads of research on pure bred dogs and still get it wrong.

I have no problem with anyone wanting a crossbred dog. This pedigree breed is best thing is daft. If people want different dogs then why on earth shouldn't they have them? If the arguement is that there are loads of pedigree dogs bred and not homed then maybe the breeders of those should look at what they are doing.

Patterdales, lurchers, long dogs, jrt's are all crossbred dogs Bred for a purpose ----as are cockerpoos etc---they are bred to do what the huge majority of dogs do nowadays----be pet dogs.

rune

Ill off out for lunch now, Ill reply when I get back, Im not ignoring you.

But why does a dog have to be a crossbreed to cuddle up with us at night, be loyal, get us out and about and make us smile? Pedigree dogs can fulfil that role, and IMO if people are breeding crossbreeds to be pets, then they are in it for the money.

Do we need more breeds?? Are the breeds already in existence not good enough companions? If dogs should be breed to just be companions, then when does it end??

oh, I give in with you sometimes! If you don’t get it by now, you never will!

yep, and if you bothered to quote my full post, you would have seen that these were the two I posted…

Now, the ‘I don’t have a ‘breed’ though’ in the first post, was talking about the fact that I have only owned crossbreeds… so like some people have a specific breed they will always own, I don’t! the second post clearly shows that I never said, or even hinted, that I will only want to own crossbreeds… heck, I even listed a few breeds I do like, and would like to own (and also saying that I like too many breeds ) my goodness, how did you read such a clear post so terribly wrong! methinks you read what you wanted to see!

as far as I am concerned, if a breeder is breeding for work or to further the breed etc, temperament and health are major things. That isn’t things that are only looked for in dogs who are being sold as pets I have also said, that dogs should always be first and foremost a pet! but breeders shouldn’t have that only aim in mind when breeding, or else they are more likely to stick any dogs together!

Don’t you dare talk about Jakes temperament! You do not know him, or any thing about his temperament! First you put digs in a DD and now me, what is it with you… people don’t agree with you so you get nasty and personal?? If you want to sit and pass judgement on either him or me, then you come up here and meet him! He is the best dog I could possibly ask for, he is fantastic and there is FA wrong with his temperament! So don’t start! I am not taking this s*** off people on here anymore, you can sit and form your opinions all you want but I couldn’t care less… anyone who KNOWS him will tell you how great he is! So get off your soap box, and dont pass judgement on others when you know nothing!!!!!!

I am done talking to you, you fail to understand simple points and misread things to suit what you want… I agree with BD, you have started this thread to make yourself feel better. I will never agree with crossbreeding, and that comes from someone who owns a crossbreed!

One thing i dont like about this forum, it always has to get personal, it can never just be a discussion about a topic, i know were all passionate about dogs but this getting ridiculous. Im enjoying reading other people views whether it differs from my own or not and it gets ruined by all the cheap digs both ways.

Leave it out

But a lot of pedigree breeders are breeding pets, certainly in springers, they all say make terrific pets, sadly 50% of the time they end up in unsuitable homes, if they didn't we would be very quiet in rescue, aren't they in it for the money:-( i'm not saying i would do it, i wouldn't breed full stop, too much of a hassle for my liking, but why shouldn't someone who wants a cross, be able to get one if its from an ethical breeder.

Who are we to dictate what type of dog someone shares their life with, what we should be doing is promoting responsible breeding, whatever it is.

I'm inclined to agree with Tassle Rune ect.

As long as its done ethically I see no issue with breeding crossbreeds. As has been mentioned the majority of dogs are bred as pets and if a crossbreed fulfils that role any better I'm all for it.

I see a lot of purebred dogs that have behavioural problems because of what the breed is, even lap dog types with separation anxiety. If cross breeding reduces these problems good!

I also think in the working dog world people do support cross breeding, Many police forces round the world are using Mali x dutch sheps, many working schutzand tyoe dogs are dutch sheps with some mali or gsd mixed in.

In gundog work many people like cross breeds for rough shooting, springer searching/flushing and labrador retrieve.

In working sheep dogs many farmers now cross collies and huntaways or kelpies as these dogs suit modern farming practise.

Ultimatly if you take the view we don't need anymore breeds you could also say we don't need all the ones we've got, so those that are similar could be combined or one could go extinct as you've still got the other.

Adam

Say you have a breed which was crossed in say the 90s following a breeding program ,
You reach 2010 you have a tested dog a tested bitch ..hips, elbows, eyes .Is it still wrong to have a litter ...??

Indeed it is.

But everything seems to be coming down to the fact that certain people believe all crossbreeders to be unethical......they are basing their opinions on bad breeding practices.....

Seems to be exactly what happened to turn people off Pedigrees in the first place...the Uproar in the Pedigree world about the bad fact that were focused on without reference to the good points - the same thing seems to be happening in reverse here.

There are crosses that I do not agree with, there are breeding practices I do not agree with...and yes - there are pedigree breeds I think we could do without....BUT that does not make me right. But it does not make me wrong either....it is My opinions.

As I said - I started this thread after giving a woman the 3rd degree about wanting to breed from her x.....I then questioned whether I was right.....and I think, from reading what people have put here....maybe I was wrong to do that.

I have nothing to feel better or worse about, I ceased reading posts from BD a long time ago, she takes great delight in slamming me and my dogs, because I once questioned a decision she had made about hers.

I am quite happy with the decisions I have made, knowing that they have always been in the best interests of my dogs.....and if anything - I actually feel worse about really going on at this woman about breeding. She was looking to breed a litter in way and for a better reason that I know many pedigree breeders do - what right does anyone have to grill her?

I agree with the fact it is unethical to produce dogs solely to supply a demand....be they pedigrees or Xbreeds and I also think there is WAY too much breeding going on.

But again - I find it hard to see that someone who has done all the health tests, plans one litter - with the main intention being to keep one and has friends who are having the rest is classed as unethical or is wrong - there is no desire for money and these dogs are headed for loving homes with people who want something different and will not care what it looks like.