Labrador colours, a guess anyone? Discussions

That happens in all sports using dogs---but is that wrong?

If so is it MORE wrong than breeding to a standard and being judged at a show.

Why does it matter?

The testing for health matters, the temperament matters----but does the way a dog looks matter? After all people are either breeding for the pet market---some kind of 'working' (against my better judgement I'll include showing in that catagory!) market or themselves.

I have no problem with health tested well brought up crossbreeds, after all all lurchers and JRT's come under that umbrella so why not all the 'poo' crosses etc.

If people didn't want them they wouldn't be being bred and sold. As long as the new owners know what they are getting and understand that they can't show at a KC show I don't see the problem.

rune---musings---not aimed at your post but brought about by your last sentencer

Why ?? some people are simply happy to have their dog (be it from what ever lines as pets) are you implying they should do something with their dogs.

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Are your lurches less of a dog because they are not worked to their capabilities!

I would say that I feel if I could get them out and working I think I would have a better relationship with them, and they would be happier as they would be able to channel their natural instincts, be able to do something with them, right now they are happy of course they are, but being able to do something that I'm sure Diesel pretty much thinks he was put on this earth only to do would I believe make them a more content with life.

I think the relationship you have with your dog is enhanced whatever you choose to do with it (even showing).

I think dogs survive very happily on a couple of walks a day and being apart of a family but doing something extra with them be it training or special games or a day out at a fun show, does take the relationship and 'bonding' to a different level.

rune

got to agree with this, we never intended to work any of ours, only really got into it when Moll came along and we realised that she needed to work, Meg did agility and loved it, but the first time we took her beating it was something else, she'd found her purpose, she wasn't an unhappy dog before, but you have to see her light up on that first day of the season to understand.

I have had exactly the same with Siren - She loves dong anything I try with her.....but herding is on a different level.
She was quite happy doing all the other activities and continues to be so....but I could not stop herding with her now - she loves it too much.

Hi just a quick question, I don't have a lab and please excuse me if I've missed the answer but...

Just interested to know if the are any current lines being bred that are winning at shows and winning field trails, right now

Thanks

So you dont think your dogs lead the most fulfilled life , or have the best relationship with you that they could have!

I got lost with who said what
Thankyuou for the explination of the lab trials, that sounds good

As for who was saying if you dont breed to standard then you have a dog who no longer looks like a lab

To an extent I kind of understand your argument but I dont really agree with it
1st - does it matter, you can breed a dog for the ability to do the job it was designed for and with time no doubt the breed will evolve and change
Or you can breed it with looks being the most important and it will loose the ability to work
Are the looks more important than the ability

and, again back to collies
At high level showing collies look like they all dropped out of the same mold, same height, same build, same markings usualy, and more often than not the same colour
Working border collies have a mich bigger range of looks, depending on many factors
In flat cattle lands you tend to get smoother leggier collies like the mcnabs, hillier areas you get longer haired shorter legged dogs, and of course often to the farmers preference too
but although all these dogs look very very different they ALL look like collies

If labs are doing the jobs they are designed for they will still look like labs, just not clones of each other

Really is that so bad?

The whole point of a breed is that they ALL look like the breed they are supposed to be.

Some vary in colour, some are ALL the same colour, and if you feel they are then "clones" so be it, but the facts are no two dogs will be the same in character, so in reality although they resemble each other they are not clones!

good post and for what its worth, i totally agree with you, its the same with the springers, they are all instantly recognisable as springers, but differ in size etc depending on what cover they are likely to work. Same with the working labs they may not win shows, but all the ones i know are instantly recognisable as labs and are capable of doing the job that they are CURRENTLY required to do, is this not evolution, that they have moved from dogs that were bred to retrieve from water whilst wildfowling, to dogs that retrieve all types of game in all terrains

Posting quickly cos I'm busy and got stuck in traffic for over an hour this lunch time, last thing I needed!! But no, there aren't, yet again another wide open argument, although I stand to be corrected. The show folk say that field trials have changed, and become much harder for the dogs, needing lighter framed and faster examples to do well. The working folk say that the show folk have bred their dogs too heavy to be able to do the job they were bred to, as well as working bred dogs.

I posted a couple of examples of dual champions a few pages back, Staindrop Saighdear and Bramshaw Bob, that look less like the type of dog you see in the show ring currently, and more like a typical good looking working dog. There are others, once you start looking, I have neither the head knowledge nor time to start looking through old photos again, but it is interesting (at least to me) that there seems to have been a greater range of acceptable conformation with some of the past dual champions.

There is starting to be more of a cross over with some of the recent excursions of the chocolate variety into working tests and trials, because there aren't any proven chocolate lines to use, and you may get the occasional halfie or some proportion working/show/pet that has a smattering of well known lines from one side or the other somewhere in the pedigree, but I can't think of any particular kennel known for showing, that's also doing well in trials? And I think the opposite question, trialling kennels known for showing is a non-starter ;-)

I can't answer you question from the working perspective - however, the following kennels work their dogs (to quite a high level in some instances, but for specific information, you need to speak to the kennels concerned) - they ALL enjoy good success in the ring

• Warringah
• Leospring
• Abbeystead
• Brigburn
• Kaspair
• Naiken
• Ardenbrook
• Winsleywood
• Woodmist

There is also Tintagel Winds who have a base in both the UK and France - I know that in order to get their titles, dogs MUST trial in France.

Just as an aside, I don't know whether it's true, but as a member on a few forums where people do trial there dogs regularly, I've seen comments a few times from people who come over from Europe to trial here in England, because the trials are deemed to be that bit more difficult. Would be interesting to have an accurate comparison, to see if this is true in general, and do trials vary between European countries to any great degree?

Thanks for the replies interesting stuff! I quite like the look of some of the 'Ardenbrook' labs just personal pref though.

Sophie

i must say harvey is more like the top one, he's taller than breed standard and an excellent worker x

I think working would improve their life, but as I have yet to find someone who would help me get them out and working they are currently living the best with the best relationship that they could have

Great post's Ben Mcfuzzylugs and Lizzy and I've yet to see a lab, collie or springer that I don't reconisge as a member of their own breed

I see many Labs , collies and springer's on a daily basis, ofcause you can recognize then as a member of said breed.

I see many a Boxer that is instantly recognizable as a Boxer, until you compare them to the breed standard, anyone can stick two dogs of the same breed together and produce said breed, but what thought went into producing said dogs may leave a lot to be desired, which shows in the dogs they produce!

If I was looking to buy a lab type dog I wouldn't want the bulkier look----simply because it doesn't please my particular eyer. Nor would I want a show type springer---again because I prefer the way Etta looks. If I hadn't had her I would have looked probably for some type of springer cross.

People generally have an idea of what they want a dog to look like and what would please their eye. We are not all the same and dogs and their looks go in phases. When I was a kid there were loads of fox terriers, now not so many. Rotties in the 80's were everywhere. Now it seems to be the bull breeds.

Breed standard is a nice game for breeders to aim at and try and win in their hobby---but it has not in the past improved many of the breeds---in fact it has been detrimental to some of them.

In the same way a working lab breeder is breeding to try and get a good working lab for themself and the terrain and work the dog will do.

Horses (or dogs) for courses!

rune

Do mine look pass muster as Labs? OK - i still have some improvements to do with some of them

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