Papillion for a dog savvy 9 year old? Questions

My 8 year old daughter really wants a dog of her own. I've told her she has to prove she will be responsible and understand what a big commitment it is and that it won't be happening until next year at the earliest.

Now obviously she is used to small dogs and knows how to behave around them. The plan is that she'll do the KC GC scheme and then probably move on to agility.

This bred was actually suggested by my agility trainer and having had a quick look online it looks pretty much exactly what we're after.

Interested to hear what any of you Papillion owners out there think and any tips you might have on tracking down a good breeder.

Thanks,

J.

hi.

we have two papillons here, and a chinese crested powderpuff.

personally even though papillons are great dogs i wouldnt get one for a nine year old,unless you really look into your breeding lines. some can be very snappy, yappy, shy and timid.also found quite a few that dont particularly like children. quite a few can be very fussy eaters too. they have great personalities mind, but they take alot of grooming. obviously your daughter knows what she is doing with dogs so wont be rough handed etc.

now... i will suggest the chinese crested powderpuff. they require grooming too obviously but i have found the difference temperment wise is huge. daphni loves anyone and everyone, she is patient with small children and let them play with her and handle her even though she hasnt been brought up around children. she is never snappy, always wants cuddles and attention. she gets on great with other dogs big and small, has excellent recall and is very easy to train as she does anything for food!
there are alot of cresteds doing agility now too because they are fast and love it!!
one other thing even though cost to you probably isnt an issue, cresteds are going to be about half the price you would pay for a papillon (the powderpuff not the hairless)

personally i prefer my cresteds over the papillons as breed to own. but paps are lovely dogs

A friend of mine who is also a dog trainer has a papillon. I don't know if it's behaviour is breed typical, or whether she's a one-off but she's an extremely busy & energetic dog & seems to have endless energy. It wears me out just watching her pinging from chair to sofa to chair! And on walks she just never stops running.

I walked with this friend on Sunday & her little pap must have run 10 times the distance my dogs did! She's also quite yappy & has developed an annoying habit of barking at every dog she sees. Her owner has done loads of work with her to stop this but it still flares up now & again, especially in stressy moments.

If your daughter also has unlimited energy, enjoys long walks, & is willing to put in the time & effort for training, then I expect they could be lovely little dogs ~ but definitely not for someone who likes to chill out & relax!

The other point I would make ~ your daughter will be 9 next year when you get her a dog? I'm sure you realise that only a few years later, boys, peer-pressure, fashion, make-up, puberty etc etc will all rear their ugly heads. So make sure you get her a dog you can also handle & give time to 'cos it wouldn't be the first time that pets end up taking 2nd place to a teeenager's social life

Thanks for the very interesting and informative reply.

CC's are still on the cards since DevilDogs suggested them. I must admit I prefer the Paps, lookwise, but obviously looks are far from the most important consideration! Shallow? Me? ;-) I didn't know about them doing well in agility so that is certainly interesting.

Why do you think that the Powderpuffs sell for less than a Pap? As you say not that price is an issue, just curious?

J.

well powderpuffs are around £300-£400, papillons are around £600-£800 dont know why there is such a price difference its like that with all breeds though i suppose. powderpuffs arent as desirable as papillons in the ring i think, also cresteds have bigger litters than paps and the hairless cresteds sell for more.

as for cresteds doing agility loads do it. the swedish champion in agility last year was a powderpuff, and we watched quite a few at crufts too!

Thanks Wilbar, I always like it when you reply to my posts as you always have thoughtful and insightful replies!

Your friend's Pap sounds like a cross between my Schnauzer - endless energy, and one of my Affens - barking at other dogs! Definitely points to consider!

As for the teenage thing although the plan is for this to be my daughter's dog, for whom she will have to do everything, I have already told her I will be choosing it as it has to be a dog that I want for exactly the reasons you state!

J.

we have a pap as well!! and the lady we got our breeder from also runs pap rescue and is also our dog trainer.
she knows the breed inside out and obviously loves them!! yes the energy levels are likened to that of a mini collie, and having dennis i dont think this is an exaggeration!!!
they are very intelligent so need lots of stimulation, they can be snappy and a good breeder of toy dogs wont let them go till they are at east 3 months old. they are a very long lived breed it is not unusual for them to see 17!!! make sure they are tested for luxating patellas.
they are also difficult to toilet train our trainer warned us of this when we first started looking into paps, and it is a breed thing, not just someone not doing it right.
we know several people who have had a few issues in this area. we also have had issues with the reacting with other dogs and they do take an experienced hand as they can be extremely wilfull!!!!and stubborn, they do have to be told no!! discipline is key with this breed!!
if you feel this is the type of dog for you, they are hilarious, worth their weight in entertainment but quite a handful!! to keep their coat in check we brush him for couple of minutes every day and bath him maybe once every 10 days.
if you want to know anything else feel free to pose questions or pm me if you want further info!
happy researching!!!!
hope thats helped a bit!!!

uhhh ohhh dont you let my lot hear this! Deary Dear!
All the best in finding the right dog and breeder for you and your daughter

-alot of cresties have done well and competed at high levels in agility including hairless. Alot of our pups that havent gone to new homes as show dogs have gone to agility homes, a number of people that compete with collies also compete with cresteds some even breed the two breeds! Cresties do enjoy agility from what I have seen but then I have always said their not your typical toy breed, they do have alot of energy and do get bored easy. Lap dogs yes, but also very intelligent and I do think some people dont understand that and then have bored dogs on their hands..

Funny you should describe paps are 'mini collies' the same is very often said about puffs!

German spitz do well at agility and can be shown, Versatile little dogs and most I have met have had nice temperaments.

rune

Well we'll definitely be going to Discover Dogs this year!

Every time I think we may be getting close to a decision another good suggestion gets made or another spanner gets thrown in the works!

To add to the confusion my friend is getting her Finnish Spitz puppy soon, for her son to show and do agility with, and I've always wanted a Finnish Spitz.... Argh! ;-)

Thanks for all your help everyone.

J.

Blimey by the sounds of it a GSD would be more suitable lol lol lol lol

Do you think so? Now we'll have to check them out at DD as well! ;-)


J.

I haven't been on Dogsey for a long time and Papillon mentioned in this post caught my eye.

Would just like to add that in my years of breeding both Papillon and Phalene I have never bred or owned a dog that was "snappy" . They are a very inteligent breed who are eager to please and do something for you. Be it keep your lap warm, race over jumps, walk prettily on the end of a lead at a show or display the skill of a well trained obedience dog they do it for you there owner 100%. My dogs are brushed/combed once per day and bathed as and when required (outside of there show baths).
To find a breeder of any breed contact the breed clubs who have members that have dogs doing all types of things. Assistance, Agility, Show, Obedience, Heel Work to Music but first and foremost much loved companions.

I hope whichever breed you decide to go with you find a breeder who will support you and your dog for a lifetime.

Gotta ask, what is a Phalene??

Hello Murf, a Phalene (moth) is a Papillon (butterfly) with ears that drop down rather than stand erect. In the UK breed standard everything else is the same.

The puppy in my avatar is a Phalene as is the girl in this picture


Joan

do you find a difference in temperament between phalenes and papillons? also do the phalenes tend to get ear problems with the dropped ears? my OH is considering a phalene over a papillon for our next dog, this would not be for a while yet i hasten to add!!!! but i never thought i would fall so totally for such a tiny scrap of a dog!!!they really worm their way into your heart!!!! we are doing pre agility at the moment and going onto agility after, the speed at which they learn is amazing!!! but ours is such a pansy he was barking last night and growling because there was a moth in the room!!! scared of moths and daddy long legs!! im so ashamed!!! he he he he

I have said in the past that I find the Phalenes have a more laid back and quieter attitude compared to Papillons, others say not so. Though quieter they still have the same eager to please determination. Maybe it depends on the lines they are bred from or maybe it's just mine that are like this. My Phalenes meet visitors with wagging tails and NO barking which is just how I like it. The drop ears do tend to need there ears cleaned a bit more than the erect ear but I haven't had any problems with the health of there ears.

I have had Papillons in the past that were barkers but like any dog you have to let them know what is acceptable and what isn't. One of my neighbouors asked if I had let all my dogs go as she hadn't heard any barking thats what an all Phalene household can be like, though I do have a 12 year old Pom who tries her best to let the world know she's around.

I hope that which ever you decide in the future be it Papillon or Phalene that you get a dog with great attitude and a breeder who will be there if you ever need them.

oh we have a fab breeder of papillons, she is also our dog trainer (apdt of course!) she also helps out with rescue, and of course health tests. our dog goes to her when we go on holiday so we dont put him in kennels. however my OH saw a phalene she had recently acquired and fell in love with her.
if you like you can see our boy dennis in the dog pictures section under betty and dennis!! the red sable and white. we were originally going for a rescue she had but she also mentioned dennis and we both fell big time for him. i have had a few problems adjusting to such a tiny dog but i love him to bits and wouldn't be without him!!!
how did you originally get into paps? if you dont mind me asking?!

Apologies to Mother*ship we seem to have taken over the thread. I will reply to this then Mac82 if you wish you can either start a new thread or message me

Is your trainer Deborah?

I got my first Papillon at 6 weeks old on the day, she was sold to my OH as a gift for me with no home checks or anything. The fact he arrived driving a jaguar at 11pm in the evening with cash seemed to be enough. I had to look the breed up in a book to see what she was going to look like. I would never recommend getting a pup in this manner. Previously we had Border Collies and GSD's so I know what you mean about getting used to a tiny about.

Though I started with Papillons my home is now Phalene only. I have a litter brother and sister of 16 months coming back to stay for the month of October while there Mum has her holiday, couldn't believe it when she said the kennels wanted £10 per dog per day. I always have my pups back for holidays if needed and if an owners situation changes no matter the age of the dog I will always have it back with me, because I know we can't plan for everything in life.