Hollywood :-( (kirsten stewarts mum) General Chat

Its not that excatly
I have no issue with food/toy rewrads, just they won't be enough for some dogs in some circumstances. Also if you want the training to be low stress the dog has to only want the reward a little, otherwise his desire to get it will stress him.
I don't have an issue with stress in training as long as its productive and the dog is benifitting from it. All the dogs I train are happy motivated dogs.
However I see circumstances everyday were reward only will not cut it, the dog cares more about something else than what you can give him and he is unresponsive.
This is were other tools are essential to a good result.

Re fearful dogs.
E collars give you the capacity to make the dog feel comfortable about what he fears. I don't know any other way to do this.
Rewards may motivate the dog to come close or tolerate what he fears but they do not make him feel comfortable about it.
I personnaly would sooner use the e collar to create confidence than wait months for the dog to improve, those months won't be very pleasent for the poor dog.

Adam

Enlighten me....

How do you create confidence with an electrical stimulation?

and....Just out of interest.....do you know that the dog is feeling confidence (with physical exams heart/breath rates etc)?

Short reply but here goes.

Expose dog to feaful stimulus, say the car.

Stim the dog

Move dog slightly closer to car, stop the stim

Repeat but get closer as you go

Adam

There by making the space away from the car more stressful than the car itself?

Urgh I hate that word "stim", it's like you're trying to dampen down what you're doing to the dog, which is basically shocking them. What's sad is if you have a look on certain gundog "sites" these collars are used all the time and no one seems to think there's anything wrong with it.

Stim..... You mean electrocuting!!!

But that dosent sound quite as nice though.......

Does it???.....

NOTHING!!!!!! you say about this ...... would make me use it!!!!

Stim, shock, zap. All just words tbh. I use stim because thats what many trainers use, others use different terms.

Btw you'd be amazed how many people would '' never use an e collar '' until they find they have a problem that isn't fixable without it and is going to get the dog killed.

Adam

You mean - until they give up with other methods and want a quick fix?

I have never yet come across a problem that is not fixable with any other method....and oddly...if you talk to several other trainers on here I think they would say the same.....

What I have come across is owners who are not willing to put the time in and want a magic wand.

Btw you'd be amazed how many people would '' never use an e collar '' until they find they have a problem that isn't fixable without it and is going to get the dog killed.

Adam[/QUOTE]

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!! ABSOLUTELY NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOTHING WOULD MAKE ME USE THIS BABARIC THING!!!!!!

Then don't use it.

The releality is other methods may work fine (or not) but they may take longer than e collar.
If you have a dog that keeps attacking you, you need a quick fix. Especially if your all ready crating ect and its not helping.

Adam

Yep...nail head....other methods take longer...so lets get the quick fix and hang the consequences....So instead of educating people about their dogs we use electricity to control them.
I'm sorry. Its horrid

If you have adog that keeps attacking you you need to look at what you are doing to cause that to happen----and stop doi ng it.

Not electrocute the dog until it is so wary of you it daren't do anything.

If it is such a good 'tool' can you explain why it isn't used on antisocial children or adults?

rune

What if the dog attacks just because it has a history of resource guarding and has now generlalised to being aggressive whenever your around it/approach it.

You can't not approach the dog, juat moving around the house garden is a trigger, the dog attacks with multple bites and gives no warning.

Adam

You are lucky you could approach it without being bitten to put the e-collar on.

I was bitten, but I had a sleeve on!

Adam

So the dog was specifically aiming at Arms? Or at hands? or did it miss the sleeve?

How did the owners feed it?

Just a sleeve?

Polly was more efficiant than that when she bit----she went for both arms/hands.

rune

I still have the scar where she got me through the Muzzle!!!

Sleeve/glove really, I got the dog to target the arm by shoving it in his face when he came at me. I then got a slip lead on and used that to hold the dog off (with some difficulty) while fittine the e collar. I was gloved/sleeved up on both arms and wearing thick clothing but still sustained a little damage.

The owners jsut chucked food out to him, he would then take ages to eat it while snarling at he door in case they came back.

Adam

So you wear a protective sleeve then provoke the dog til it bites you then trap it and put on the e collar then shock, stim, torture (complete sentence with word of choice)it. Can you not see that this fundamentally wrong especially for someone who proclaims to train and understand dogs. One day your training method is going to bite you in the butt......literally when you meet a dog that is smarter than you!!

Also just because you apparently turn dogs around quickly does not equate to caring and not doing it for the money. Businesses often go down the root of cheap product but higher turn-over to make their money.