Didn't know you could get lemon and white springer spaniels General Chat

Nose colour is wrong from a welsh, we never have flesh coloured unless its a serious fault. Also the head and ear shape is slightly wrong.

Some of my pups have a lot of white on but they still have red fleck on them. The colour of welsh is almost always rich red and white. Occasionally we get a lighter red colour but this is more a deep ginger.

the dog in the picture looks very much like the springer x cocker we meet on our walks.

Actually it does like like a working cocker x springer

Interesting genetic fact (which I didn't know myself til recently) -
The "liver " colour in English Springers is Liver, i.e. chocolate (bb) - same gene as chocolate in Labs, Border Collies, GSPs etc.
but
"Liver" in Welsh Springers is genetically Red (ee)... same gene as Irish Setters, Orange/red/golden Cockers, Golden Retrievers, Yellow Labs etc.

That really is interesting I do know that years ago they were crossed with other breeds to darken up the colour (if thats the right way to phrase it) and in effect it breed out the lemon strain. Occasionally we get a light eye (Gracie's are a bit light for my liking but still acceptable, most of the noses are black or very dark brown but they are also susesptible to winter nose (Brons has started to lighten already. Ive never seen a flesh coloured nose in the breed though.

And you won't, with an ee based breed.... Those that are liver from the chocolate/brown gene bb do have red/light noses.

The "clear red" (as it is known) ee gene is incredibly variable, when you think it is responsible for very pale cream G Rets, through all shades to the deepest Irish Setter.

Then, in conjunction with other dilution genes it also gives "white" GSDs, and even the "white" of West Highlands and Samoyeds is thought to be due to ee as a base.

But when you see a 'liver' or brown nose then the brown gene bb is almost always present.... I am enjoying reading up on dog colour genetics and I now see that Dogues de Bordeaux are another E-locus gene, E(m), but often with a chocolate/brown bb gene as well. I think Vizslas are also not "Clear Red" but another gene on the E locus plus bb.

I am greatly enjoying the current work done by Canadian geneticist Dr Sheila Schmutz, who is analysing dog coat colours at a molecular level - something that has not been done before for "pet" animals [has been done for all mouse colour mutations as they are used as animal models for many human diseases].

Gets very complicated when you start factoring in the K gene in dogs - and not all breeds have it!

Lemon is caused by the precense of the recessive "e" gene. Dominant "E" is for the extension of dark pigment and a dog that is "EE" or "Ee"
will be either black or liver.
A dog that carries two copies of recessive gene "e" will have no dark pigment

Mines Kc Reg . my understanding is your not meant to breed from "Lemon" dogs and the breeder can inforce this to kc.

if the links work .. here are a few pics of mine. one from when he was a pup with his other lemon brother.

and then a pic when he was 9 weeks and one of him now at 6 months old. Notice how his coat colour changes quite alot!! Hes now bright ginger as you can tell!!








hopefully these work!!

if not look at page 3 on this forum. im the last comment with 3 links to my facebook

http://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7978&start=20