Concered over article in magazine - tamaskans Controversial

I am a reader of dogs today, one of the authors I find quite funny and enjoy reading his articles, and that is Terry Doe, now he is entitled to any breed/type that he wants, thats not the issue I don't mind that, but and theres always a but, he has written to articles about how he wants a tamaskan.

Now again I wouldn't mind, its his choice, he is the one to live with the dog, and he is doing everything that someone should, he's going to go to a show, he's meeting with the dogs, he's talking to the breeder, he obviously adores the breed, and wants to learn more about them, but I'm a bit concered about this bit, and I'm wondering what the breeders think too.

He also mentions about the look of them, well we all do like dogs for different reasons, but I believe that dogs have been over bred for less, and this could spark intrest in more people, if the people are looking for the breed for the right reasons, and breeders breed for the right reasons its all good, but I do worry that people who have never heard of this breed before will now take notice, and like I said I believe that dogs have been over bred for more reasons.

Anyway just thought that I would also add that I would be concered about any breed/type of dog being broadcasted about people, if it all works out for him great, I wish him well, but I really hope that no-one is enticed by things like the look and the fact that they are only recent only.

You may think that I'm being a busy body, starting things that don't need to be started, but I am just a bit concered thats all, whether it was a new breed or an established one, many people are shallow, and a wolf like dog may be enough for people to take notice.

There is a breeder fairly close to where I live I don't think they have a good reputation, think some dogs are showing epilepsy, and the owners aren't getting any help,what a surprise:-(. I was shocked to see them over here, on breed sites etc.

Well, if you can't talk freely about them then no one can learn about them. I have no idea about why this forum should single out this one breed for special treatment when there are plenty of other dubious breeds and breeders?

The exact origins of plenty of breeds are unknown (look at the endless threads about the NI for example).

Yes, I was startled by this. But the guy wrote a comic article about having an out-of-control klutz of a dog, so hopefully no-one will go there for serious advice on what dog to get.

To be honest I am completely bored by this man's articles and tend to give them a miss anyway. He has spent the last x number of months bleating on about getting a new dog-not been very interesting in my opinion!

The breeder you're on about, if it is one of the ones I'm aware of, isn't getting support, cos they're no longer a member of the breed registry.

They've left along with another 2 1 in scotland, who apparently left before she was kicked out due to her ethics or maybe lack there of, from what I've managed to gather. Anyway, this or these people I'm thinking of, are now going to start yet another new breed using the 4 dogs they've got in the us, the ones in scotland, and other breeds they're bringing in.

They're claiming that their breed is going to be healthier and that the unmentionable breed is plagued with health defects, and are infact csv or high content wolfdog x's.

They would be more credible, if they weren't using a dog from epaleptic lines (which I'm told are now removed from the unmentionable breeds genepool), a dog that they admit is a monorchid, their first us litter was apparently from a stud that wasn't fully health tested and under age, I say apparently, as the fact that the first litter of this new experiment produced a pi bald, which apparently hasn't appeared previously at all. Which now has some people thinking that the sire, isn't who they claim it is.

They have also contacted owners of csv in the us, to see if they can use them in their new breeding program. Yet, they've dedicated entire websites to the fact that the unmentionable breed has csv etc in it, and is unhealthy apparently...obviously can't be to much of an issue for them can it?, either that, or they're lying through their teeth, to gain support for their plans.

Another thing I will mention is this.

If the breed was as unhealthy as they claim, and they were so concerned about wolfdog content, and the problems it could create, then why are they still using the name of that breed for their new one. Oh, they've stuck another word infront of it, so they are now aatu unmentionable breed, however, they do like to drop the new first part of the breed name, which leads me to believe that they're either:

1. Deliberately trying to confuse people.
2. Trying to capitalise on the growing popularity of the unmentionable breed, whilst slagging it off at the same time, to suite there own ends.
3. Both.

Cause lets face it, if the breed was as bad as their claiming, would you really want to be associated any longer with that, even by name. You also wouldn't be doing the verry things you dedicate websites to complaining about would you?

Their argument is shot with more holes than swiss cheese, and it reeks of hypocrisy.

To be honist, I'd rather him get one of those, then a pup from a certain other group that is being discussed elsewhere, at least the pup he will be getting, will have come from parents that are health tested and dna profiled. I think the breed show was a week or 2 ago, so asume that was the show he was on about.

I like the look of them, far more consistant imo than either the ni or the ut, which they came from originally, yes its another offshoot would you believe.

This thread is weird, it's like playing spot the Elephant in the room!

I think it was high time the ban was lifted tbh, I can't see it being any different to NIs, Utes and the like these days.

I second that, its not like people don't talk about them anyway, hell, I don't usually even bother to not say the name of the breed.

Reference the bit in bold - this is exactly what the original breeder of these dogs did, used the mother and brother of my dog (while calling them by their new 'breed' name) despite knowing he was epileptic - she knew because I told her when he began to have fits before she went abroad. I was also told that his aunt died with epilepsy before he was born - her owner told me this.

I believe one reason they are not mentioned on here is because of possible accusations of libel when they are questioned.

Hi Ls.

They appear to be more open ref that issue now, they certainly aren't hiding it, it has been mentioned on their forum, not sure if it is on the new one, will have a look, they've also set up a health database listing the issues within the breed.

I just find it astonishing that the aatu people, can claim to have any moral highground, and that people will/do believe them, when the hypocrisy is clearly staring them right in the face.

From the tamaskan dog health database.

Thanks Tazer; yes I've seen it. "We have now found out that he (Cougar) has passed epilepsy onto other (non Tamaskan) dogs ..." A little too late for any respect. I told her about Loki (who is out of Cougar) when he first developed epilepsy. He was around 15 or 17 months old back then ... he will turn 6 this year. She denied all knowledge of it in his lines, even though his aunt had died, according to her owner, yet continued to use his relatives in breeding for her new 'breed', even accusing me of 'prolonging the agony' and being cruel because he is epileptic and still alive in an e-mail in 2008. When more and more people like me come out of the woodwork, I guess it leaves them little choice but to finally admit it.

I guess you're right there. Maybe to late for respect, but better late then never I suppose, the comment in that email was a bit harsh imo.

How is Loki?

It is really beyond me, how anyone could breed from any dog, knowing what it could do to the offspring, and their owners.

He's doing really well, thanks. It's been around 9 1/2 months since his last cluster, a record for us, so I think a combination of drugs and diet has helped.

I'd just like to see people stop breeding from any dogs with things like epilepsy in the lines, even if it means the end of that breed. No desire to breed, or to create a new breed, is worth inflicting something like this on even one dog and its owners.

Thats brilliant fingers crossed it continues.

I agree, it certainly not worth that kind of suffering.

The only experience I've got of epalepsy, is with other humans, 1 being a person who has the same genetic defect as I do, it being one of the affects of that mutation, which I appear to have been fortunate enough to avoid, so far, not sure if that'll continue though. Good thing I don't want kids, but even if I did, I wouldn't if I was told it could affect someone else further down the line, as its not fare on them.

Hehe, I joked on another thread, that I should come with a warning label, for being an instigator of ot, I just can't seem to stop myself lol.

So how big is the gene pool that this new `breed` is from? It sounds very small. Do they outcross or line breed?

Which one?

The one the thread was originally about, or the offshoot of that I mentioned.

The one the thread was originally about, I'm not sure, I'll try to find out. I'm sure I read on their forum a while ago, about them having to outcross in the future to improve diversity, but I might just be losing the plot.

The other one I mentioned, crossbreeding is more the appropriate turm to use. Like I said, they tried to get the csv breeders over in the US to agree to lett them use their csv males as studs, don't believe they were successfull. The breeder of that group in scotland has got a new male which I believe is from a bidc reg breeder, which makes it either a bi/ni or bi/ni x wolfdog, I know they apparently intend to add other breeds in in the US, but am not sure what those breeds are.

That hasn't really answered your question has it lol.

To be honest I`m quite confused about the distinctions between the T*****n, the NI, the BNI, the BWD and all the others. There seem to be a lot of factions so maybe I`ll stay ignorant - it seems easier.

Trouble with alot of these breeds is that the gene pool is tiny and they interbreed to keep the dogs looking a certain way.
If your going to creat a new breed surely it should be done with health in mind?

Adam