BUA- The British Utonagan Discussions

poor dogs :-(
im not too sure money is the main driving force,
megalomania springs to mind :-(

...i cant read anymore...bet i do tho,maybe lol.

Yes its the dogs i feel sorry for to..Blindy brought into the world and blindy brought from breeders.....
You could be rignt Layla.. I think its a mixture of both personally, People like to be important and have big egos.

Just to lighten the mood a little, so from metallica on one thread to...

......incubus.(Meglomaniac)...Or dare I say it...within temptation, (deceiver of fools) on another. I know you won't take that last one the wrong way, but just incase anyone else is inclined to, I'm being lighthearted here, so don't waste your energy with getting offended.

I could create a playlist out of these threads lol.

I did not realise that Ammik does not have an official DOB. It does however say TBC, so I guess it is a case of the NIS looking at the database and filling it in.

It also says that he is approaching his 7th B'day and the page has a date: 01/02/09 on it so obviously he is now 8 and his birth date must be known for them to be able to say that xxxxx

Yes, it makes you wonder how long it takes to confirm a date of birth doesn't it. Neither Ammik or Dark Ravens date of birth have been confirmed in over a year. You would think the breeder JK (breed advisor and former president) would know wouldn't you.;-)

Well we could say they are "dual purpose" working dogs and pets all in one, so I reckon a good few quid to the gullible!

God will you all listen to yourselves, talk about broken record...JK this JK that

I have actually been to JK,s, how many of you can say the same I found nothing out of the ordinary, and I was given complete access to the whole set up (sorry to disappoint). Kiah, my NI, will only become part of our founding stock (regardless who bred her) on completion of ALL health checks. As you can see from my site she has already been BVA eye screened and will continue to be yearly.

You all harp on about health testing and ethics and when presented with a breed club who do more than most to ensure the future of the dogs you find something else to slate them for. Childish, immature, vindictive and a touch of the green eyed monster all spring to mind

We have a database for our own British Utonagan that would put any KC breed to shame. We also have a database for over 700 dogs to enable us to fully appreciate the health issues and start to correct all of the mistakes previously made. As a committee we work tirelessly with our members, specialists and indeed the KC itself.

Im sorry you had to go to JK's, and I agree most of us have had the unpleasantness of photos from shocked people visiting, those poor dogs.

Can you please answer the health questions I asked with regard to the NI being used and the litter screening please, you appear to know about that side of it with your comment towards the database etc.

Yes right enough, probably because its fairly obvious to see some Rough Collie in some of the lines before us, Bill perhaps , myself and a couple of NIS Comittee fondly call my Ute boe "The Collie" due to his colours lols, as I said before the Ute WAS a shambles this is what we have set out to correct.

The parents are matched for temperament, the pups are followed throuogh constant communication with owners and also we ask they come see the breeder or attend the events to see for ourselves, we have a few behaviourists and trainers in our team that are perfectly capable of knowing the temperamnet of a dog, it is fairly easy to see as a pup what to expect if watched carefully. Also we have started incorporating Agility and Obedience into our bigger breed shows, and intend to bring rigging in too. A lot of our owners are doing their good citizens and a few are hoping to be registered as Pat Dogs, we also have spoken to someone in Search and Rescue who when her circumstances suit is willing to take one on for training in that. The Utes temperament doesnt suit Schutzhund as they wont "attack".

i yes all owners are fully informed before they purchase pups what traits their pups may have, and we understand it is going to be the second or third generation down that will give the easier temperament we are looking for, some Ute owners had Huskies prior to Utes.

Yes they do Tupac, but we need to mix all the original founding breeds to recreate what e have now.

Yes one of if all the tests come back ok, we have found owners willing to become involved, and yes the risk is big for the breeders but the potential outcome is certainly worth it in our opinion, it doesnt affect their breedsif done correctly, you will find some breeders are willing to give it a try. Especially as we are so frugal with them being health tested as ours are. Dogs brought in from pups are followed through to 2years have their tests and then the decision is taken wether to be used or not. It is expensive and it is a great undertaking, but we as a group have decided we will do it. There are things that can go wrong and Im sure there will be new developments that need addressed as we move forward, we are very strict with contracts and agreements adn also very strict with what dogs are allowed to be brought into the register, our reserch officer checks all lines and progeny etc and the decisions are made by ALL our Committee with the help and advice of many other experienced folks. we can keep track of the dogs fairly easily due to the way BUA registers, and any dogs we would like to ensure are keptin the owners have full explanation and proviso in their contract.

Dawn I will tell you again all the info is on the web site and the forum some litters have had folds as it said and we are litter screening and clearing out those with them... its a fairly easy process and its being done along ith the guidance of the eye specialists AS I SAID ...

also as I said all dogs brought in have been researched as have their progeny and all we decide to bring in obviously we agree is a good idea, be kinda detrimental to think it was a bad idea?

Think yuo have your names mixed up again Laura, not very good at listening are you?

We did have a Blue offered to us but the owner wasnt prepared to get healths done so we wont use him, maybe down the line it is a possibility we have discussed.

I have already answered this question...in the saame manner KC does by registrations and maybe yuo think its a waste of time but we dont.

Never been on the forum and I saw NO litter screening certs either. Re: "folds" are we talking "lesions" like in MRD? If so I assume those breeding animals are now removed from breeding, the puppy owners told and have spay/neuter contracts?

I am sure you will find plenty of unethical owners who, for a few pieces of silver, are prepared to let you use their dogs, but the fact remains that no reputable breeder of any of the component breeds with high quality show and work tested dogs would let their dogs anywhere near a cross-breeding programme. The result - same old same old - dodgy crossbreeds from poor quality origins.

Mick

Have you thought about approaching any of the assistance dog charities to see if you're dogs maybe suitable for that kind of work, or maybe the police/military with regards to searching for drugs, explosives, human remains etc. Something to think about maybe?

With no certainty that you will get it, good luck with that, I really mean it.

Glad to here it.

I have to agree ref the bsd, think it'd be a good choice at some point, provided you can find ethical breeders that'll help you.

Get a bull terrier then !

oh really just another 'experiment' then.....how can u be taken seriously as not to be playing around with living creatures??....i myself would be much happier and have far more respect if you did not sell your pups,but keep them till maturity,and the ones that 'dont make the grade' are then sold/rehomed after spay/neuter(as culling isnt an option)...but your not gonna do that are u?

its a game to you all...with living creatures in the middle :-(

Alady, I will continue to read these posts and any threads relating to any wolf look a like dogs on here, I am very interested in hearing what so called ethical breeders are doing to further these breeds...is the one you are creating a "NEW BREED" ? Meglamaniacs ? Bunch of DR Frankenstein s more like...
As I said I feel for the dogs...are the breeders of this new mix willing to take their pups back ?
I have heard a lot of people say first time owners shouldn't have an N.I. Do many first time owners end up with pups with the new mix ?
Can we see a litter of pups from the new mix please ?
Most of the breeders I know can take up to 18 months to decide on the correct mating...
When was the first mating of the new mix ?

I agree with Moonstone too, a dog of 30 " in height and 100lbs in weight with the wrong temperament in the wrong family is got to cause concern .

What will happen to those pups out of crosses - and the ones that don't make the grade - if you cannot find owners for them - i.e. you find that potential owners want the full-blown Ute, not the precursor?

Also, what will happen to pups/dogs that develop health problems, if the owners do not want them?

As BSD's have been brought into this thread and I believe that I am either the only person (or one of very few) who owns both NI and a BSD can I please make it very clear that cross breeding is NOT ever going to happen with my dogs. I have never and will never breed NI's or crosses of them.

Wolfy looks is not a reason why I chose the BSD. My NI's got me involved in working dogs and showing at a local level. Whilst they have done very well they do not have the focus and drive to go much further than we have. Also of course I wanted a dog to start KC showing.

I spent along time reserching the breed before a very long wait for my BSD pup. I have very good friends who have been involved in the breed for many years who pointed me in the direction of a fantastic breeder.

All my dogs are firstly family pets and Callan will be the one to chose which sport he enjoys and excels at.

I think the first mating took place about a year ago, or at least, I recall reading that on the other thread...I maybe getting people mixed up though, so appologies if I'm wrong.

Thanks Tazer I'd love to Alady's critique on said litter, at a year old there must be loads of information regarding the pro's if any and and con's of the crossing...