BUA- The British Utonagan Discussions

Do you know if any problems arose from these eye diseases, I mean why were they tested for MRD and GPRA, and say not HC?

Dawn, I really can't remember HC or anyone talking about their dog having it , is that Cataract? I may have the GPRA wrong, I know MRD is definitely correct, and it's present in the Sulin lines, but most of the dogs have Sulin in their lines. It's a bit like Mahlek to the N.I

All BUA pups have their eyes screened as a litter screen at about 6 weeks with a BVA eye screen.

If the owner wishes for their dog/bitch to be used in the breeding program within the BUA all health tests must be done ie eye-screen, hip/elbow done.

Only upon satisfactory results will the breeding endorsements on the said dog/bitch be lifted.

I've sat and read all these threads about the wolf-look-alikes......and awe i can say is im PROUD to have my Utonagan in my life, he is a happy content and HEALTHY dog and hope to one day add to my household with a Northern Inuit

Are the dogs not eye tested before they are bred from and then once each year??

Yes of course the dogs are eye tested before they are bred from, sorry if i didnae word that last post quite rite

Are the results online to be viewed

All current screens are in our forum as are hip and elbow results and founder dogs that we are planning on introducing so far, also the litters we have had.

Sibevibe, the reason for Husky and it will be probably only mixed back in twice is for their intelligence and clever nature and the fact they are not prone to Hip Dysplasia, there is a small part of Husky in the Ute already and it is the mix of all teh founding breeds that has given them the nature they have.

I didnt say I would consider Raven to a Husky due to bolshy I wouldnt put her to a Husky due to she is slightly prey driven, and bolshy as the Mal. She has however the absolute adoration of her family, is a soft loving and very deep creature, I would say this from the Mal, this quality I would keep and dont want to lose, the breeds brought in are very carefully brought in as we want to hone in on the absolute brilliance of the temperament there we have now, I have not met a dog with the mix of these before and I want to try and preserve it. I dont want a dog that is easy or completely faithful and lives to do my bidding, I want it all, that is the Ute and that is the breed I want to share.

None of us are forcing this on anyone, and all who ask and have an interest aer told absolutely everything we are doing and intending to do.

What about litter screening, is that done?

Am I correct in saying the dogs (NI) intend to "introduce" are from a mating of a male mated to its litter brothers daughter? If so, can I ask how you could possibly, in anyones dreams think it could be a good decision?

I own three dogs that are not KC reg and I am not a snob about these things but I would like things to be done correctly and it is my fear that , at times things are not done correctly and the dogs and the future of a 'breed' in the making is what suffers. So please do not take this as an attack, these are genuine concerns/questions of mine:
My curiosity (and it is not just about these dogs), it is about any breeds that are being 'created', is what actually constitutes a breeding plan? And how does one know if it is indeed being done correctly? I appreciate there is said to be honesty and openness. I am just curious as to what the 'plan' actually is and how you know it will be successful, do you know how many dogs you will need, how many of each breed? What percentage of the different breeds to be inputted and at what stage, all that sort of thing. Or is it just an experiment? Also, are the best dogs being used at every stage? Will the best dogs be used at every stage? My fear is, if this answer is yes, how you will, for example get the best suited Husky or other breeds, that have also passed all the health tests etc, because as people have said, the respected people in the world of such dogs, will not be interested in their dogs being crossed, or will they? Also, are you looking at the health of the lines of the dogs being used eg health tests for the parents etc of the dogs that you are adding to the gene pool?

there is already one of them... the csv

also even sibes get hd...

i ask again, are u keeping all pups produced till mature then spaying and castrating before homeing?

imo i still think your after a softer gsd wolf coloured ;-)

Please correct me if im wrong but is this the same Haughmill kennel of GSD's that you are using to cross Ute's with? Seems to be quite controversial in the GSD world.

Thanks for replying. With all the health issues, I can't see a future for the Utonagan without new healthy, unrelated lines etc. (the 'new blood' everyone talks about) - I know where you are coming from.

My concerns are as have been mentioned by others - what happens to the pups that don't make the grade (culling?:-(), how tight and enforceable contracts with owners would have to be/could be to ensure they were neutered/spayed and not bred from, etc. etc. The Association would need money and legal means to ensure they could enforce those contracts. Traceability of all the breeding pups, etc. etc. Then there's the issue of finding excellent quality 'other' breeds to use - just take a poll on here and see how many pedigree owners would allow their dogs to be used in a Utonagan breeding programme. That would only leave dogs from a less desirable background, possibly with dodgy breeding and health. What happens to all the dogs if the Association falls apart - what provisions would be in place for the dogs/pups? I'm not assuming you will but it happens, as we know too well , with breakaway groups, etc. This is a programme that could take many years so how could the Association ensure that things continue properly in the future, when current members may not be there?

It's issues such as these (and the unhealthy lines with things like epilepsy) that persuaded me that it would be best that the Utonagan was not bred any more, that it could not be rescued but I know you feel driven to try to save/recover the Utonagan.

Dawn if you read the link it says YES it was BUA that started litter screening and the DNA swabs going to AHT. ANd yes all dogs approved are thought to be a good choice for various reasons, always pending on their health results etc.

Werewolf I understand your concern and yes it is very valid, we have to take things slowly with this as there is no point in rushing a thing if you want to do it right. With the Ute so far it has been a roller coaster of finding out the past mistakes by things that have arose in the present because they didnt document and openly share health info, we have however now confirmed many problems, which lines and matings associate to them and are working hard to make sure it never happens again. This we are doing with the help of all our breeders and the recording of all health findings and past records we haev gained. We now have hundreds of pedigrees and information on teh past of our breed and are moving towards keeping the best.

The Ute had som every fine specimens but also an awful lot of mistakes that should never have been bred on. We hope to remove these lines. We have disallowed certain lines in the new register due to epilepsy and we have very strict protocols for dogs used from the original Ute.

We as we want to preserve the temperament have decided to do the Ni, GSD, Husky and MALx to the Ute all these are our accredited breeders, pups are to be pet only and we will be watching not only their health but their temperament and looks, conformation etc... there will be no set percentage as such but he input of Mal and Husky very little in comparison to Ute, NI and GSD. We know the exact look we wish to acheive, and we are workin gtoward creating a breed that within a few generations has the cleanist health possible. We will pull whole litters out if they dont work and we have already turned down more options than we have agreed.

As for Registered pedigree dogs, yes it is very difficult to find genuine folks who are willing to give us a try, but we have found a few and they are happy to be involved, infact like myself see it as a very exciting and promising ambition.

HI

Sorry cross posted, We have legally binding contracts with our puppies, they where written for BUA by a Barrister and they should hold up in court, the money issue, as an Associaiton we have more chance of raising funds as a cumilative for the safegaurd of our breed and if it was deemed necessary for teh good of the breed then funds would be used on agreement of the Comimttee, otherwise the same as the KC pups will not be registered and will not be given paperwork.

All pups are microchipped to their breeder for traceability. And as for safegaurding the owners that is why BUA was set up too, to offer a service and community for all the owners, give them shows, outings etc ... we will always do so whatever happens. All the owners are told the stage we are at with the breed etc. All our records are already on teh forum and are in teh midst of putting live, we have published a yearbook documenting everything also, all COmmittee members have a copy of our database and all info is there for all, so whatever happens its all there, hopefully all those involved here at the beginning will still be here for a long time yet, but provisions hae been taken

Can I also say that (I saw an advert for pups), it was nice to see them priced fairly. I hate it when the dogs are over priced. It makes it look like money is a big motivation when they are. I think it shows people care about the pups and where they go, rather than making ££££££ when they are reasonably priced.

But the NIS said when I was there the Ute's were Collie-X's. So your new dogs are going to be more shepherds?

I have to laugh at this thread.

Yes all litters are eye screened

How are you going to test the temperament of the pups, at what age will it be done, if its done young will there be follow up temperament tests when the dog matures, who will do it, and what proof will you have that the dog(s) have a "good" temperament...will breeders be getting involved with activities outside of the breed conformation shows and will their results/scores be available for others to view.

There was probably alot said and done in the past, but it is just that in the past, its what is being in the present and future that counts