BUA- The British Utonagan Discussions

To answer Tupac, we are using the best we have got in the Utonagan, already mixed and historical records and health well documented, we will not be putting certain lines back to each other as they have been inbred to death and have also been proven to be in serious need to go to outside lines, but we do not want to lose what we originally fell in love with, looks and temperament, we are starting again re records, health, new foundation dogs, we could have started completely from scratch and at least half our foundations will be brand new, but we wnt live long enough to finish what we started if we went way back to the beginning, we are happy with the Ute as is in some dogs, but the rest is truley a mess, looks and health, we want to salvage what we have and improve it. SO yeah we see it as starting again but its not absolutely from scratch..

Moonstone the NI and the Ute have a lot of different dogs in the back...most the Utes now go back to one line which we feel needs cleared out health wise and this line is not related to the NI, also we have n studying pedigrees fund a few unrelated lines between the 2, the Utes didnt have a lot of old NI in them a couple of Eddies and a few "alleged" which truthfully I dont think where. The NI has better bone and tail set than the Utes we have now. The NIS as stated do not allow the use of their registered breeding dogs on outside breeds, but have agreed to allow BUA to buy a few pups over the course of time to match our dogs.

We have also a few pedigree breeders on board who are quite excited about becoming involved in creating a new breed. We are very aware of the temperament and not wanting to produce too much either way with regards Husky and Mal, and the dogs picked are picked foremostly on temperament, we will not know the full adult temperament of the new crosses until they are 2 anyway and this also we have taken into account, all these dogs are being closely monitered, and apart from any retained by their breeder are all sold as pet only.

By bringing in more percent shepherd we will not only have an easier temperament with regards prey drive and same sex aggresion, recall etc, and also better tails and bone and movement, we are only interested in old style GSD and working lines, not show ring GSD. Any Mal or Husky input will go back to extra GSD next generation,and all dogs are matched on temperament above all else...for example my Raven would never be put to Mal or Husky as she is a bolshy mare whereas some softer natured Utes could do with a bit more oomf...

We realise it is going to have to be very carefully done in order to salvage the breed we love and that is our intention..

I'll ask here then.

What changed your mind because you have previously stated that you were of the opinion that there were enough healthy lines to work with without a need to bring in other breeds or crosses?

Let the games begin...I feel for the dogs I really do !

HI Sorry Linda I hadnt seen your post I was trying to catch up with ALL the new posts in between grooming the clients lols..

Yes I did when in TUS disagree that the Ute needed any more input, as at that time we where never given the health reports or had any acccess to the database or pedigrees and had to go on the advise of those I pressumed knew what they where talking about..... TUS had asked me to research prospective new breeds and I did for them even though I didnt agree, after we parted company and BUA began we made it our mission to give owners and breeders an open health report and database, as IMO no breeder can do a good job without the correct information. In putting these things together I recognised the amount of embellished stories re health and also the amount of health issues that hadnt been documented and some even completely denied...

After having all that info infront of me and also our committee the only way to salvage the Ute was to gain a lot of new lines and new input.

What actually is your problem?????


If you do not agree nor like what we are doing then dont bother reading the threads.... I think their are quite sufficient variations of terriers already are there not, and if you despise folks trying to create a new breed so much why on earth do you have one....

By bringing in more percent shepherd we will not only have an easier temperament with regards prey drive and same sex aggresion, recall etc, and also better tails and bone and movement, we are only interested in old style GSD and working lines, not show ring GSD.

Immediately noticed this- I have a3/4 Ute x 1/4 GSD.

He is massive, he just over 30 ", weighs getting on for 100lbs, has a work drive like Mal or Sibe, and has a prey drive ,that makes it a danger to let him off lead in a lot of places, as he will hunt and kill anything small and furry outside of our home. I worry, that you could end up creating huge dogs with very strong drives, that a lot of people wouldn't or couldn't put up with or handle.

He was easy to train, has the intelligence of a GSD, but between 12 and 18 months, another side of his brain kicked in, and he lost a lot of his offlead privileges, as I will not risk him disappearing on me. Before you say it's down to training and socialisation, he had both in abundance and still does, but we now treat him, as we would a Sibe or Mal, including Cani X, running with the bike, and backpacking, being very careful offlead. I am really concerned, as I know a large majority of his litter went on to be rehomed, as the owners had shocks when the pups matured, and weren't quite what they expected.

He also has oversensitive stomach issues, which is not easy or pleasant to deal with, when it happens. I don't think some stories have been embellished in regards to health though, I can think of several other Utes with the same problem, we know there is epilepsy, how can you be sure adding more GSD,won't make this worse.

I don't understand why they won't give you registered N.I. If they want to do it properly, this makes it look dodgy. Who bred the unregistered litter, and why weren't they registered.

In reply to this the two NI that have been allowed to be part of the BUA breeding scheme are full NIS reg dogs and are in fact the litter brother and sister to my girl. Just to clear that up.

BUT I thought registered NIS dogs could not be crossed with another breed, and if a breeder did sell the pups for this purpose, they would be struck off the register.

So,is the breeder going to be struck off ?

Hi Raz,
Is Raven in your girls pedigree?

Hi Lanie

I wondered what the reasoning was behind bringing the sibe into the new breeding programme. What does the sibe bring of benefit?

I know of no dedicated ethical siberian breeder who would be willing to let their dogs be used.

Take care.

Seoniad.

thats the point...they wont be ethical people will they...shame to the breed :-(

imo from what i can gather is you want a soft gsd with wolf colouring :-(

That was my point L. More likely to be the sort of breeder we hear about working for welfare.

Take care.

Seoniad. xxx

No as it was a decsion made by the commitee as a whole and was put to the vote at a meeting. The part in the ethics still stands though a special allowence is being made i believe in the BUAs case.

Sorry no idea how to multi quote but no Raven isnt in her pedigree.

[quote=Razcox;1970438]No as it was a decsion made by the commitee as a whole and was put to the vote at a meeting. The part in the ethics still stands though a special allowence is being made i believe in the BUAs case.

Sorry no idea how to multi quote but no Raven isnt in her pedigree.[/quote]


I don't suppose JK is the breeder is she?
So yeah, a special case again.

God, this stinks, one rule for one, and the all the rest have to abide by it.

oh alady... how many sibes do u really know?? but youll put a 'bolshy mare' with a gsd???......why not live with the breeds your playing around with first,least get some first hand knowledge of them!

Is this one of the N.I to be used

http://www.ty-ohni.biz/kiah.htm

Because Mahlek Pawnee is not hipscored??? and he is the sire, so how will this help things. He doesn't even have a date of birth?

I apologise if I have the wrong dog. I am not being awkward, I am just speaking up for the dogs,as they can't do it for themselves

type will never be achieved without culling :-( (and i mean the english meaning...killing!)

pet homes eh? so how are these dogs not gonna be bred from?...are you going to keep all dogs produced till maturity then castrate /neuter them before homeing them?

Ahhh in comes JK with another finger in the pie!

Can I ask what eye tests are done on Utes?

I asked that in the other thread, how can you be sure they won't be bred from.

Will they all be neutered if a health issue appears, or the temperament isn't what you wanted.

If I remember correctly, MRD and GPRA came up ,( but don't quote me ), I am pretty sure ,that it was considered a good idea to screen for these with a BVA eye screening. Along with hips and elbows being scored, and DNA testing of all the dogs.