OMG I have seen it all now a 'Piebald German Shepherd' General Chat

Does she have any merling on any "dark" bits? Pics Please! (only cos ive never noticed before)

Im new here, but Im here to tell you that these piebald shepherd ARE INDEED PUREBRED! They are AKC registered and of are UKC Champion lines. I was personally there for the breeding and was the first to know of them when they were born. They were highly unexpected and the litter was supposed to all be black and red or solid (breeding for color??) In fact there are 2 more AKC registered piebald (you register them by their base color - Cherry is sable and Blackberry is solid black) german shepherds. Their mother is a blue sable and their father is a solid liver that now lives in the UK. There are research facilities in the US that do nothing but color genetics for animals and they too have heard if the pied shepherds and confirmed the genotype as the piebald gene. Everyone is quick to judge but Melisa's number is posted on her website and would answer any of your color questions. These puppies are NOT mixes!

Hi,

Seems that my puppies have caused quit the stir especially among those that have not done much GSD breed research itself.

I will start by saying that the GSD started as a good old 'mutt'. There were many many dogs used to create the GSD as we know it today including wolfdogs. The original GSD came in brindle, merle, piebalds (high white with spots of color), blue, liver, white, sables, black/tan, fawns, blacks... to name the majority of colors/patterns.

As the breed was refined patterns were bred away from because of personal likes/dislikes. However in the instance of blue, liver, white, and even piebalds, these genes are recessives. Recessives are forever.

The parents to the puppies that you guys are debating are from 2 different breeders virtually across the US from one another that were here at my home and bred together. These 2 expirienced breeders only breed GSD and follow AKC guildlines for DNA on their dogs as do I.

Mom is (as Rava's mom pointed) out is a blue sable and dad is a solid liver, again from 2 different breeders. No line breeding or inbreeding.

My 2 puppies are related to 2 other like patterned piebald puppies also here in the US that are from the same lines.

If you would take the time to read about white spotting in dogs by this link you will see it can affect the dog a little bit which is what is seen most of the time or it can affect the dog a lot which is what happened with these puppies.

A little bit = white feet, chest, blaze, tail tip (there a pictures on the link) or a lot = piebalds aka 'paints' in horses.

Please note the link below is kept current by a leading color geneticist that works for Healthgene in Canada, she is highly respected for the work she has done.

Here is that link: http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogspots.html

As for their head type... this is the American show style head, they tend to be longer more feminine than those bred over seas. I happen to like it on my girls I know over sea's they tend to breed for thicker heads.

Please note in the link above the white spotting MITF can and does accompany 'ticking' like you see on my puppies.

Fetch a high price? I guess they could but they are not for sale. I have others from the same lines and may end up with more. I also have others that I think carry the MITF and work with www.vetgen.com with color testing.

As for only breeding for color??? LOL I breed ALL colors, I breed GSD to GSD and the color of their suit is an added bonus. I work with the Pallet that the gene pool in the GSD has given me.

Breeders can breed white to white and black to black and sable to sable or even black/tan to black/tan what is wrong with breeding liver to liver? NOTHING I am breeding GSD to GSD.

Thank you for understanding and I look forward to answering any color questions or providing other info.

Sincerely,
Melisa Smith
Mom of 'Blackberry Pie' and 'Cherry Pie'

Could it be a genuine GSD? and they have just quoted the colouring wrong? I know we have had a thread on that colour type before.

Apologies, answered the thread starters post and then saw your answer.

ps the link came up as broken when I just clicked on it

thanks, very interesting. they look just gorgeous to me but then any GSD would to me x

Thankyou for taking the time to explain
I felt - to me the pups didnt look very GSD - but of course as they grow that will change
Fair enough
Yup recessive genes bring up all sorts of coulours and I totaly disagree with some breed standards saying these natural colours are wrong (unless there are health problems associatied with the colour)

But I totaly disagree with breeding FOR colour
Putting liver to liver together or whatever, people should be breeding for the healthiest best tempramented dogs
It is very unlikely that the very best dogs to put to a liver bitch is going to be another liver dog - as their are so few of them it is unlikely that the health and temprament would be so perfectly compatable
Also there may be extra health risks in doubling up on these genes - like in many breeds merle merle breeding. At the moment we dont really know as it isnt something that has been done much

I disagree with anyone whos goal is to produce fancy coloured pups - of any breed
Thats my view, sorry if it different from yours

They are NOT German Shepherds

There is also no mention of health testing, now the owner is on the forum what were the hip scores of these dogs and the ones further in the peds?? Couldnt see any mention on the website before?

funny you should mention that Razcox I have just read this

Wow, for someone who has never seen these puppies and knows NOTHING of their lines, you are incredibly close minded. Your dog in you profile pic has black spots on its tounge, it MUST be mixed with Chow Chow. See how silly that sounds? Not everyone knows that GSDs can have black spotted tounges, so they are quick to judge.

Ahhhr so the fact she was a pretty colour matters more then a good hip score. I getya, just hope the puppy buyers agree when they could end up with a poorly pup with HD.

same for me.

I doubt you will get that answered LOL.

ohh dear so was breeding for nothing but colour after all... because it sure looks like it wasnt for the betterment of the breed....

Non of my NIS NIDS (3 including my Shadow RIP whom I believe may share the same sire as your youngest) are from hip scored parents, the youngest being approx 2.5, whos parents are still bred from. I hope you are not suggesting that their breeders did not care about HD?

errrm!! don't see the relevance in that to what your doing

Not getting the dogs hipscored is one thing but getting an iffy plate deciding not to sumit it but breeding anyway is another thing all together. Thats knowingly breeding from a dog that IMO should be taken out the gene pool if there are plenty of better dogs. The GSD is not a rare breed and clubs have been recommending hipscoring for decades . . .

How is that you know of me? I have one intact female shepherd puppy and am not a breeder. All of my other dogs are spayed and neutered. I am simply a shepherd lover who found this thread on google. I find it relavent to the topic at hand b/c just b/c they dont look like your typical purebreds as you insit doesnt mean that they are not purebred.

They were no blue dogs in the regional sheepdog breeds at the start of the breeding programme, there were no white with black patches.
There was how ever a white mixed with dark spots (dappled grey) but that was 130 years ago

how many dog forums do you reckon these
people are on up to now wildmoor
they never cease to amaze me