Old fashioned straight backed GSD's Controversial

Can I ask, what is "the old fashioned type" does that mean the original GSD bred in Germany,,, or is it the Alsatian type that has evolved here in the UK after the war???

It's the Alsatian from the 1940s through to 1960s before the main imports started coming over.

The KC(Under pressure from certain breeders-some of whom are still actively breeding today)added some wording to the breed standard that has never been in the German breed standard.
"Temperament: Noted suspicious of strangers"
This was to allow the very nervous Alsatians still to win in the ring & one of the reasons that the show English type have such awful temperaments. One BOB winner at Crufts(of the old fashioned straight backed type)went for both the Senior Steward & the Group judge(the incidents were carefully not shown on the BBC(before the days of live group coverage)).

Sadly the dogs from the 1940s-1960s that had no new imports behind them had the most awful temperaments on the whole(our first one was just such a bitch-she was PTS for attacking my brother)as well as having very short legs, deep chests & excessively long backs & this very type can still be seen in the ring today. Most of these dogs have multiple lines back to Ch Avon Prince of Alumvale an almost most white coloured paled dog of an extremely nervous disposition(which he passed on to his offspring)

This was the reason my first GSD came from Ireland from Gwen Barrington's Brittas kennels from two German imports. She was not "fashionable"for the ring, but had the most wonderful temperament & gave me my love of German GSDs as opposed to the Alsatian so popular in the UK.

While I wouldn't care to comment on the first part of your post, when it comes to your dog then I couldn't agree more. Fabulous looking dog. Who cares about prizes?

Sieger 1910: Tell von der Kriminalpolizei. This was the ultimate GSD one hundred years ago. 100 years of progress?

im defo no expert but this dog although very very handsome ,has more of a csv shape to me :? (so i would like him ;-) )

Another old favourite of mine, I think around 1899, is Beowulf III. Completely different (but maybe if you look at the pics of the police GSD from earlier today):



"Beowulf had extensive stud opportunities--107 litters producing 304 progeny. He sired the 1905 Sieger and the four Siegrins who between them won all titles from 1902 to 1906."

And here is the ultimate proto-dog; Ok so its a European wolf!

An artists impression of course

Here is Horand the first GSD Reg Number SV1

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He doesn't have a straight back(dips behind the withers)even though he is stood square

As for always looking back.

Which would you rather ride in an Ford Popular or a Subaru Impreza ????

Well I won't argue over if the photo has been re-touched! The point being that the ancestry does not remotely resemble the modern show dog, nor the service dogs I see today. My fathers GSD (from Holland) didn't look much like them either and neither did the service dogs we bought in the 1970s. I am struggling to be convinced about the shape of the current show dog.

As for Ford Pops, they were cheap but poor when they were new. I have driven Rolls Royces from the 1920s that were far superior to a 1980s Escort. Quality not quantity.

That is a working dog in the Sieger Show
this is him as a pup
http://www.schaeferhunde-ddr.de/galerie/wurf_e/img/evan.jpg.jpg

at 9mths old
http://www.schaeferhunde-ddr.de/galerie/wurf_e/img/evan_._ca._9_mo..jpg.jpg

this is his litter brother http://www.schaeferhunde-ddr.de/galerie/wurf_e/img/eiko.--.jpg.jpg

litter sister
http://www.schaeferhunde-ddr.de/galerie/wurf_e/img/elsa.mit_6._mo...jpg.jpg

litter brother
http://www.schaeferhunde-ddr.de/galerie/wurf_e/img/enzo_2008.jpg


This is his Dam
http://www.schaeferhunde-ddr.de/images/sindy_gr.jpg

Why is it so hard for people to understand that when a dog is gaited in a show it is pulling against the collar so looks different, likewise when it is in show stance it looks different when they are in relaxed stance the dog/bitch will look like a different one.

I can't believe the length in those hind legs in that first pic you posted up there wolfdog??!! Nowdays, it seems everything is much lower to the ground let alone those hind legs!

Now forgive me for being ignorant, but from what I'm reading here, is it only important to see that dip behind the withers then to know whether or not you have a straight backed or sloping back gsd? Otherwise, it's all to do with the standing position being exaggerated?? Only interested, and I'm a bit thick!

Amazing aren't they? I think the wolf stands the best in all the above photos.

Show people hate to see that dip as the back is not technically straight. But I think that 'ordinary' people perceive the difference to be when the dog stands square the back would look roughly level (any of the above pics) compared with some dogs where the back slopes noticeably downward. That is what I take to be the difference meant by the OP.

Helena if a dog has a dip after the withers it can not have a level top line

Too True

That has very straight stifles which means that he would have not had a very long trotting gait, quited stilited in fact like Chows who have always had straight stifles

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An across the ages selection of GSD males I know which ones I would prefer to have

Ill have the one second from the bottom please.

Not English of course he's the grey VA2 Timo vom Berrekasten ;-)

And I would be happy with this one! He is English and came out of rescue!

Joedee, being serious; I would be interested in your opinions of these animals (from the middle pic with the 3 people; down would do).

Thanks for that,!! very informative.;-)