Old fashioned straight backed GSD's Controversial

Here is one I know, I look at this dog as a 'straight backed' dog:

That's a very good point. As far as the stance being 'natural' for a GSD, I have never seen a GSD free stand like that tbh. People seem to always stack them at shows. Personally I don't see the problem with either baiting or stacking dogs, so long as they are showing themselves to their full advantage as far as the breed standard goes.

But doesn't this make the breed standard false if it is not a natural stance for a dog?
And why a standard that stipulates something that is in essence unnatural for a dog.
I have been Googling other herding breeds and the GSD is the only one with this stance and sloping back. Why?

Most heading breeds work the dogs in a manner than you would recognise from "One man & His dog", However GSDs are not a sheepdog, but a shepherd dog.

The Shepherd(human)uses GSDs to move sheep or cattle from pasture to pasture & the dogs are also used to keep the stock behind a line walked by the shepherd as he leaves the stock. This restricts the stock's access to the pasture, the dog keeps the sheep behind the invisible line by trotting up & down it & forcing back any animal that tries to get past, this includes "gripping"if required.

The reason for the requirement for a slope from withers to croup is to ensure that the dog does not have to expend energy whilst trotting, a dog with a level topline has to expend more energy went moving at a trot-level topline dogs normal gait is a walk & not a trot(hence the wolf, coyote, dingo etc level top lines as the follow their prey at a walk & then run, they rarely trot if ever)

Look at a BC working sheep, they do not trot they walk as this is the pace at which sheep move without problems(like over heating or panicking if they are moved too fast). A GSD does not do this the dog moves the sheep by trotting side to side behind the sheep constantly(without being instructed)whereas a BC walks forward behind the sheep only altering direction when instructed.

You have actually to see a GSD stock working to really understand what happens.

The HGH dogs in Germany do not have level toplines in stance & these dogs work stock for a living 365 days a year & no have to be retired when they have worked for 6-8 years like most Service(both assistance & police/military)dog so. Why ?? Because they are doing the job they were bred to do.

You've never been to Germany to see the dogs shown there have you ?

Stacking a dog allows the handler to carefully place the dog & hide faults & then rigidly hold the dog in position whilst the judges touches them-this is the way the "Alsatianists"show their dogs here in the UK. The correct way to stand a GSD is to let the dog walk into the show stance, which BTW all dogs(including my BCs, Beardies, Cavaliers & GSDs did & do still)

The German dog whose photo I posted is stood naturally & neither stacked not baited

the breed standard doesn't not specify how a dog should stand. That's down to what is expected in the showring. You stand the dog to show it to it's best advantage. I personally do not see what the sloping back gives to the breed as far as working ability etc. it seems more aesthetic to me, although I'm sure someone with enlighten us soon. Personally I like to see breeds with a more natural shape ie. straight back. I don't see the advantage in movement of this sloping spine.

Thanks for that explanation Joedee.
Are there other dogs that work sheep in this way?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying I've never seen it. Are all UK GSD exhibitors doing it wrong then? I haven't been to Germany yet but will make a point of watching the GSDs at Durtmund next year.

Excellent informative post.


From my understanding the conformation of the GSD is to allow effortless movement for a long period of time, and the slop of the back combined with the short pastern which is slightly angled is to enhance that movement.

Surely the fit for purpose comes in here.... if you put a straight back / less angulation of hind pastern GSD to the work it was bred for, would it be able to withstand the amount of pounding on the joints required for its job?

The angulation /conformation of the pastern is surely for the porpose of a shock absorber to enable effortless trotting.

Well they way I look at it, the German Shepherds managed to do their jobs way before the sloping back came in to fashion;-)

Straight backed ? hard to tell as the dog isn't stood 4 square in fact I had to tilt the picture to the dogs feet almost level !

The depth of chest ratio is 9:4 instead of 9:11

Length of dog to height is 7:5 instead of 10: 9 or 10:8.5

Jess kind of stands like this naturally (just had a look through Photobucket and can't seem to find many of her standing still lol - loads of her trotting, but not standing ). All the photos below are her standing as she stands. Not put in any position.

Not sure I agree with this statement. Wolves will trot for hours and cover great distances, often in the snow. They have a very economical gait.

Did they really ? Not as well as the current HGH dogs do, they are not only better, but fitter & healthier-not me saying that but Karl Fuller a full time shepherd in Germany(look up his dogs Kirstental)

Where have you seen wild wolves in the wild ? I have watched them live in the USA & via a camera link in Russia & they do not trot they have a long walking stride-much more energy efficient Of course these packs may have been usual.

Must have been mistaken then, coz they sure look like they were trotting to me.

I guess that our GSDs must have come from different working lines as they never resembled these show dogs. I wonder why some FCI judges I know privately refer to them as handicapped?

Oh I'm finding this thread very interesting indeed, I didn't know about the walking v trotting either, coz Georgie always, always walks, always has, whereas my new dog always trots, I've hardly ever seen her walk in fact, not the long strided walk that the other dog does anyway.

You've got me looking up old piccies now to see how they stand!!!

Yes, she is standing with one hind leg in front of the other, but not like a show stance. What I meant was I have never seen a GSD at a show walk into that stance without being stacked. The show stance is a massive exaggeration of Jess's natural stance. Maybe, as Joedee says they do walk into stance at German shows, but in the UK I have only ever seen them stacked, and sometimes made to look very unnatural. If they all stood like Jess in your pics, I doubt many people would comment of the shape of the back.

Hehe, I totally misunderstood what you said then - sorry

I too am finding this thread very interesting!! The GSD were my first love. I have had a GSD around for most of my adult life and most probably will always have one, but must admit to liking the 'straight backed' ones to ones who appear to be 'roached backed', and do prefer the long coats too.