Wolf Hybrids on the Lion Man General Chat

Oh yes, cant argue with that.

Nice to see that Busch was able to use the mauling to death of a keeper at the park for a bit of self publicity.

Would be curious to know who the wolf hybrid breeder was on the program.

He's an expert at that, uses other peoples misfortunes to promote himself, fell flat on his face here though!

About 1.30 mins in, if you don't want to watch it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-DXDUTBhI8

That even the person who trained him originally, to work with the cats, finds that treatment wrong, tells a lot doesn't it.

To answer an earlier point, about how if he was as cruel as we are saying, he would have been attacked well, fear is a powerful psycological tool, if cubs who lets face it, are pretty helpless, are treated that way, and have learned from that early age, that he isn't to be messed with, then it is probably no suprize, that as adults they still have that learned fear of him, and the fear of what will happen, if they step out of line. For a long time, fear and intimidation, were common practice when training wild animals, and even dogs. Incidentally, it has been stated by another bigcat trainer, that, about 3/4 of al bigcat trainers are either killed or crippled, when you add to that, the close working relationship, the lionman expected his staff to be involved with, then it is hardly surprizing that accidents would happen, but it wasn't Craig who suffered for that was it.

Lovely to hit a baby like that isnt it, unwarranted and cruel.

The video looks sus to me. The young cub being smacked - we don't see it actually happen, we hear the noise and we see the cub making a noise and rolling over on its side, seemingly in a supplication gesture. That looked to me to be a set up, but as I know virtually nothing about cats, I really cannot comment on the whole issue.

I remain to be convinced that Craig Busch is the cruel monster that he stands accused of. I prefer not to believe all I read ... for every negative remark about Craig, one can find a positive one. I dislike intensely this "death by internet" culture against animal experts in the public eye, whether they be Craig Busch, Cesar Millan, Shaun Ellis or Uncle Tom Cobley.

I do not know anything about the Lion Man. Ref declawing cats, I believe it is common in the USA, I do not think it is acceptable, I think it is cruel.

Its worse in Big Cats Nes, they often end up crippled and unable to walk.

Declawing sounds pretty horrendous, I must admit. As someone who is vehemently opposed to the unnecessary removal of body parts from any animal, ie dew claws, tails etc., although as I have already said I know virtually zilch about cats big or small, it sounds to a complete ignoramous on the subject quite awful.

I never even dreamed of them doing such a thing to Big Cats:-(

So you find declawing an exceptable practice then?. Everything else aside, that alone is disgusting and cruel.

Btw, I used to quite like Cm, before I realized he used flooding methods, e collers and an outdated view of how wolf packs actually behave, unless L David Mech is wrong of course.

As for Mr. Ellis, the fact that no one in the community of wolf biology and or research, will support him, says enough really. He hasn't been able to teach anyone, anything they didn't already know, wouldn't call him an expert either, maybe in another 20 years, when he has actually done something positive for the wolves, and not just sitting in a cage with captive one's. I also thought he had promice at one time, but after that last documentary, in which he chaced a female around the enclosure with a human pregnancy test kit, I'm more inclined to think prat.

There are many experts some more in the public eye than others who I respect and admire, for their work and dedication, Steve Irwin being one of them, wildlife conservation lost a great man in him. I doubt the same will be said of mr. Bush or Ellis.

Also, try looking up the tiger canyons project, started by a couple of bigcat trainers, who successfully raised 2 captive bred tigers to survive in the wild. Again, they've done more for bigcats, then Bush ever has.

How else would a big cool man bully these Cats? He is a bully, nothing more. He had a couple Servals there too, had a litter, brother and sister they were!!

He has a massive record of his cats NOT being able to rear their own cubs, wonder why that is?

What !! I've just said the opposite about declawing !! I most certainly do not think it acceptable. Please read my post!

Absolutely agree with this.

Dawn, I only watch the show every now and again and have never looked into how he treats the cats etc. I did see him close to tears once when a cub died:-(

There are ways of getting on well with big cats. I remember a programme one Christmas about the Monks who have rescue Bengal Tigers and their cats were condition to be fearful of a small , thin stick. That is how they maintained control of the cats. So, it is possible. This man may be abusive to his cats, I do not know, as I have never looked into it, the Monks were not.

Back to the original topic...I saw the episode with the wolf hybrids, and I must admit I was uncomfortable about the breeding of these animals just for movies. What happens to them after that? I didn't like the way they were taught to be food aggressive in order to snarl for the camera. I just didn't sit right with me.

I didn't know all this about Craig Busch - this is new to me. I'm very shocked that he declaws the cats.

Humm....not impressive!

Well, the 4 min clip I saw, I did wonder about certain things myself, ref the hybrids and how they are raised but I cannot comment on this from four minutes and I cannot find any reference to the trainer elsewhere, I wish I had his full name.

What did you think about the 'look' of the hybrids? ref the original post.

they were very beautiful, as one would expect. They looked like what they were to me. My OH said 'there's Mallys on the TV' coz they looked like Mals from the back, but when they turned they looked a bit more wolfy. Too doggy to be wolves, but then to the GP Mals look identical to wolves anyway. I do wonder what happens to the whole litter that's bred for such a purpose. Are they kept as exhibits? Is this fair? Is the temperament dog like or wolf like? A lot of questions need addressing IMO about how ethical it is to breed hybrids for a movie.

You are right to question these things, but there have been a few cases of rescue dogs being used in recent years. Maverick a high wolf content wolfdog from a specialist shelter in the USA appeared in 'The Chronicles of Narnia' for example. Here is a link to a blog that has a brief article and a couple of links worth looking at: http://www.canislupus.info/

I guess it proves that even cast off animals can have fun and fulfil a role for our pleasure.