Trust - A Deadly Disease Discussions

Exactly! I often joke with my Mum that she must get bored with her BC, as he comes back as soon as she calls him! It's far more interesting to have a dog with a mind of it's own! (no disrespect to BCs BTW!!!!)

I disagree - especially with your breed, the Malamute. I had a mal cross sibe cross wolf for 10 years who was rarely on the lead, followed by Tai of a similar type but far less wolf. I don't know, but I expect you work your Mal in the manner for which he was bred ... but to my mind, this is not the same as allowing him to run free. There is nothing like it for a dog, any dog, whether it be a Chihuahua or a Great Dane. To keep a dog on the lead for ever, or in harness, to my mind is unacceptable ... because it is not natural. I don't mean this to be so harsh as it sounds, but I just cannot understand why anyone should accept that "my dog cannot be let off the lead because of his breed". This is just rubbish. I can think of 4 pure Sibe owners who now let their dogs run free because I demonstrated to them how, in the correct safe environment, it is perfectly possible to do this.

I know ! I love BC's, they are wonderful dogs, supremely intelligent etc. etc., but they are just TOO, TOO. I like the challenge of my wolfy boys.

Tai disgraced himself last night. I am always bragging about how wonderful he is, so obedient, would never steal. Well, last night he did. We always sleep with our bedroom windows wide open for his benefit. The radiator is kept permanently off of course. It was so cold last night, that my husband decided to keep the windows closed, but turn the fan on in our bedroom and open the door to get a draft through for Tai. Guess who forgot to close the kitchen door! And guess who had cooked a massive ham joint because she is on the Atkins diet and ham is so expensive to buy? And guess who ate all the ham rind and fat that I had cut off the joint, and left on the side with the stock and water that I had boiled the ham in, ready to put out for the birds this morning? And guess who has been farting like a trooper all evening?

Actually, secretly I am quite proud of him, because he has always been so easy to train, such a goody goody compared to Hal, it is nice to know that he can be so Norty !!

Don't we just! ;-)

Hope you and the guys are well Greyhawk

Having lived with sibes for 18 yrs and met hundreds I agree with the breed clubs world wide

All my guys are trained to recall. Hours and hours of dedicated fun training. I put the time in. I still agree with the breed clubs world wide

Hope Tai is doing ok. Photo's you put of him are just lovely.

Take good care.

Seoniad.

Fair enough, I apologise for my generalisation. But if they are never let off lead, then that means they are worked in the manner for which they were bred ... in harness. This is great exercise, and will keep them lean and fit.

But they are still never ever allowed to run free by the sounds of it.

That is very, very sad.

All dogs should be allowed to run free at least some of the time.

All the Sibes I know then who are allowed to run free must just be a very rare few! Don't misunderstand me Seoniad, they are not "obedient" in that they will come grinding to a halt by your side the minute you whistle them, but they have a good, basic recall, and are perfectly safe to let off in the woods, set aside etc. well away from roads and other dangers.

Thank you for your nice comments about Tai. He is a beaut, a real beaut, and we are so lucky to have found him.

id rather my sibe lived a life on the lead that being let off and ran over. even if i took her to a beach or a field away from roads she would run and run and run and run until she found one. and even if she didnt find one id never get her back.

some sibes can be trained in recall, others cant. Kira is trained to run in a harness, so she will never be able to go offlead.

In a sense though, are you not thinking of your own needs over your dogs? Yes there is a chance your dog could run off (as there is with many breeds bred to run etc), but if you asked your dog what do you think he/she would choose?

If I was the dog I think I know which life I'd choose.......

In no way am I trying to deem you a bad owner, I'm 100% sure you're not, but there just seems to be an awful lot of "if's" involved and what's the point in living if you spent your whole life worrying about the "if's"?

thanks for this, kira is neither fat nor bored, trust me, you'd know if you had a bored husky! lol. she is walked miles on a short lead most days, and allowed time to run about (almost) freely on a long line, i know she is safe, and id rather her be 100% safe than have her running completely freely.

i know so many sibe owners who had 100% perfect sibes up until the day they dies, that was the only time they had ever not immediately responded to a command. and it was also the time they had been killed.

if people wanna risk it with their sibes thats up to them, maybe they'll get lucky, maybe they'll learn the hard way. but dont EVER say that my girl is fat or bored.

i dont care what she'd say, she cant talk. and im sure that if i asked her
'now would you like to run free and possibly be ran over/shot/kicked by livestock/attacked by the agressive dog you so want to meet? or would you liek to have 100ft of freedom and be safe because i can judge situations much better than you and reel you in if necessary?'
she'd choose the 2nd one. well maybe not because shes a bit dim. but im not losing my baby girl for a bit of a run around when it may be her last. im sure she'd rather have a good leashed run every day than one unleased run that could be her last.

and as for the if's, id rather spend the rest of HER life thinking of the 'ifs', than the rest of MY life feeling guilty that i hadnt listened to the advice given to me for the safety and wellbeing of my dog

I don't think I'm going to reply to this right now, it seems pretty emotionally charged and I just wanted a bit of a debate really. Not trying to get anyones back up or anything.

Night all x

sorry it wasnt ment to come across as harsh, it was ment in the sense that i know better than her really, i have a higher brain capacity and can therefore judge situations better than she can, and can keep her safe.

it wasnt ment to be rude, apolagise if it came across that way

Ok , no Husky here.

But Mav is half Waggerland. The waggerland (WS)line are purpose bred for working trials, to be very very independent & are reknowned for doing a runner!!!!

As a tiny pup i worked on mav from day 1, & with hard work (never had a collie pup like him) hes fine......but some of his brothers arent, because effort wasnt put in as tiny pups!

To go off tangent, one of the worse BC things is herding in approiate things, herding cars/trains /motorbike/push bike etc is everybike as life threatening in collies as running deafness in northern breeds, & every bike as inbred & natural & rewarding for the dogs.

Now if a collie comes to me because its herding inapp stuff, my advise is not to keep it on the lead for ever. its to
*train against the problem
*walk in Safe areas without distractions
* to look out for signals from the dog (tiny signals) & to look out for potential problems & react first



With the husky/ Mally types is it Because you are told "you cant" so therefore you dont even try?


Surely if you are prepared to put the effort in to working the dog to satisfy his needs it wouldnt be much more effort to train a recall that would be suitable in safe areas? (i dont know btw hence the )

Also the dogs must be responseive to Commands in harness? So that shows me they are very trainable?

I heard a horror story of a collie who was "into" herding the hoover, got decapitated my a chain -saw when its owner borrowed one for the first time- because it was herding in the same manner as the hoover
That dosent mean i would never let my dog off a lead, only that i control the herding & keep my dog on a lead around chainsaws.

I have no experience of Husky types, but they say the same thing about beagles and hounds. My hound will disappear after game because he`s been hunted on a line and expects us to tear along behind him. So I don`t let him off around game (unless I`m not in a hurry ) I do let him off on the beach or places I can keep an eye on him.
Apart from training there is management. If you can`t train your breed you should at least be able to manage them. No-one should have a totally uncontrollable dog after all.
There are a few huskies / Mals who I see being walked offlead in our local park, so some people seem to be able to do it. One guy who has 3 lets one off at a time, which seems to work well.

I would say that is a necessary safety measure for 'every' breed

I don't misunderstand you Gnasher You can only speak for the few siberian huskies you have met.

I say the same thing to all potential siberian owners. " If you think that keeping a siberian husky on lead for it's own safety is cruel, or have issues with addressing the breed specific then the Siberian Husky is not the dog for you. And if you are standing listening to me thinking 'yeh yeh I'll take mine to training and mine will be different then your ego will cost your dog it's life.

If however you are willing to meet the Siberian Husky half way, think outside the box and spend time searching for safe enclosed areas where your dogs can free run then you are at least half way there to understanding the 'true' nature of this fantastic, family orientated breed. "

My guys hike, bike, scoot, work in harness, free run, enjoy daily training sessions and this year I hope to start agility with them.

The years I have put in working for welfare have taught me one thing. The breeders who don't educate new puppy owners as to the 'pure' nature of the siberian husky are always back door breeders who pump out litter after litter of 'snowdogs' for profit! A good breeder will always always spend time and energy making sure the message is driven home

Looking forward to more pics of Tai

Take good care of yourself.

Seoniad.

On the contrary, we always recommend that people train their Siberians to recall IN SAFE AREAS to as high a level as possible. All our adult Sibes have excellent recall and have been trained from pups. However, we know that that training, no matter how good, will never be 100% reliable and so we would never ever put our dogs at risk by letting them go offlead in unenclosed areas. What we also know is that in the event that they ever did escape (broken lead snaps, slipped collar etc) we would have a reasonable chance of them returning to us.
We have been interested in Siberians for 20 years and have owned them for 16+. During that time we have come across at least one owner each year whose highly trained Sibe has "gone deaf" for the first and last time and ended up dead under a car or shot by a farmer for savaging livestock. The common theme is that all these owners quite genuinely believed that they could train this trait out of their dogs; that their relationship with their dogs was so good that their dogs would always respond to the recall command; and that the recommendation of every husky related organisation IN THE WORLD was nonsense and that they and their dog were somehow special. Unfortunately, these owners learned the hard way with tragic consequences for their dogs.

Mick

Everything in the end comes down to personal choice.

I would never beleive that, just because people choose not to let thier dogs have free running time, they are bad owners or they do not do the best they can by thier dogs.

However - it is not a life I would want any dog of mine to have.

My dogs have training (Freestyle, Obedience, free shaping times, and disc (frisbee) work) but, in my mind that is no way would make up for not having free running on the dunes, beach etc. To me that makes thier life complete.

I am also a firm believer in the fact that 100% recalls do not exist in any dog. Some situations can never be predicted.

I love the Trust I have with my dogs and that they have ing me - to say it is a disease is a sad way of looking at it and I truely feel sorry for owners who feel this way.

good post! I think if you have a dog or breed that's not going to have great recall, it' your responsibility to find somehwere where they can run, sniff and just be dogs. I would never dream of letting my Estrelas off in a busy park, or near a road for example, because I don't have that total control. BUT I have found that our local beach is generally deserted, especially at 7am, and there are a few good dog walking areas nearby that are safe. When I had my Elkhound I had to watch for livestock too, so he was on a long line in some areas, but I made sure he had some free running time. If nothing else, there are always tennis courts etc. to run them in. My belief is that if you have a high drive dog like a Husky, running in harness, agility etc. are excellent ways to exercise your dog, but all dogs need some down time too.

The thing is, there are very few 'safe areas' when you have an independent minded breed who is more than happy to run out of your site and stay out of it until he decides it's time to look for you again, regardless of how good his recall is. Most hedges, fences and gates in the countryside aren't dog proof barriers and that dog may well keep on running and running with nothing to stop him.

Large securely fenced areas are few and far between, unfortunately. :-(

Nor mine Tassle most of the sibe owners I know find places to free run their dogs regularly. Granted they can be difficult to find. We are very lucky to know of a few

I agree it is sad to think of owners thinking this way. I tend to think of it as making sure my furkids stay alive. A positive thing I have an intense fantastic relationship with my guys. I trust them in every situation I put them in and they trust me. If I get it wrong they will remind me they are siberian huskies!

Hope this finds you well Tassle.

Take good care.

Seoniad.