Opinions On Crossing GSDs with NIDs Controversial

The x owners of my boy came to visit today.
Lovely couple, who were just unfortunately led down the garden path as to what type of dog they were taking on. I genuinelly felt they were heartbroken as to not being able to do the right thing by him, they have to live with that. Is it their fault for not researching enough or the breeders for selling him to them being aware of their circumstances?
A combination of both probably but as a pet owner you tend to trust the judgement of a breeder do you not?

I know someone who bought a BC pup (as a pet), the dog is now approx 9 mths old and a handful, it turns out that dad to pups is a working dog.....another litter is planned for next year, these pups are being sold to pet homes. I don't put it down to bad people, I put it down to ignorance.

But nowhere near as frequent and as common in such a minority type though thats only been in existence a very short time. You must remember that NONE of these people using Czech or Saarloos have EVER lived with one of these dogs as a PET for ALL its life, yet they churn them out in high numbers and sell them into pet homes.

I agree, however look at the numbers again, for example Border Collies as oppose to Wolfdog types, the figures are shocking Akna. Lets say 300 Wolfdog crosses and 10 come back due to behaviour issues, how many Border Collies bred? has to be in excess of 40,000 per year, there are more than that Labs REGISTERED, so I figure possibly nearing double unreg collies etc... and even if 1000 come back its nowhere near the percentage of wolfdog types is it?

So why crossbreed them with an NI, who demostrates friendliness anyway?

And you hit it on the head there! You mix the NI with the Czech and with the Saarloos and you have the potential for real issues, the issues that we are seeing. MOST of these dogs are sold to first time owners who want pets, clearly many will not suit this job, nor will they be easy to live with, but hey they look like a Wolf and we can sell them, so lets breed them anyway! Breeders driven by greed and its the dogs that suffer.

Good post

I find myself agreeing with what you say

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding about Saarloos behaviour. Yes they are shy and reserved and suffer from separation anxiety. BUT with their family they can be extremely challenging as well. That is to say they can challenge you over anything and teeth and growling will be involved. They are extremely physical and emotional and require a response that is balanced and fair, which in the heat of the moment is quite difficult for many people. They may not be wolves but you need to go and sit with a pack of wolves a few times to try and understand how they see the world.

What might seem like out of control behaviour can be relatively normal for a Saarloos.

Imagine what the potential is if you cross a full wolf with a dog like the Czech; a dog that can be a handful anyway. If you take away the wolfs natural inhibition (shyness, self control and bite control) and give it the dogs high drive...

Sorry and all that but those that wish to create these animals are idiots.

This is exactly what I have said from the beginning. You give a PET dog the nature of a wild animal, naturally shy, then give it confidence and guarding capabilities, its a recipie for disaster, sadly its something we are seeing and something we will see more.

There are a few of these owners who claimed how wonderful these dogs were only to return them when they couldnt deal with their behaviour, posters on here willing to ridicule and tell us we knew nothing about what we wrote about, but hey it comes true doesnt it, and yes, of course its the dog that ends up passed around.

I still have huge admiration for the Saarloos and the Czech, more so the Saarloos, its a breed I really like, in the correct home in the correct environment,not bred in high numbers and sold to pet homes to supply a market developed out of greed.

Absolutely agree with this statement Dawn. I am very attracted by both breeds, particularly the Saarloos because it is more "wolfy" than the Czech. Wolfdogowner's description of a typical Saarloos is the description I would have given of Hal. As Wolfdogowner says, a dog like that is not for everyone, a Saarloos is definitely not for everyone, and to a slightly lesser extent, a Czech also. But in experienced hands with people who know what they are doing, as you well know, I have no problem with either breed.

The problem lies in the hands of the breeders. Eddie was incredibly careful to whom she sold her pups - we were put through hoops for years before she trusted us enough with one of her pups, but as you rightly point out, some breeders are only in it for the money, and then coupled with this, you have ignorant people who have watched Snow Dogs and think its cool to have a northern breed, or a wolf cross and have absolutely no idea how challenging these breeds are, particularly the latter of course.

So very good post Dawn !