Opinions On Crossing GSDs with NIDs Controversial

Just an aside, you have to go back way more than 5 generations - 10 as a minimum. You may only see the same names cropping up a few times in 5 generations, but go back further, and you will get a clearer picture. The further back you go, the better idea you'll have about the ancestors shared by the sire and dam.

To calculate the inbreeding coefficient, you then need to download some software (as the calculations get quite complex) then input the pedigree data. That may have been what Sansorella was offering, but I'm sure you could get back 10 generations just using the net - think I got to 8 just out of curiosity (I'm very sad)! This explains it better than me:

Unfortunately, in the average pedigree, there are a large number of shared ancestors. Therefore, the total inbreeding for a dog cannot generally be calculated manually and appropriate software must be used (e.g. CompuPed). Calculating inbreeding for only the first few generations is not particularly useful. If there are more than one or two common ancestors in four or five generation pedigree, the inbreeding is probably already higher than desirable. Unfortunately, having none is no guarantee that common ancestors will not occur in abundance further back, and some pedigrees of this type still achieve moderately high inbreeding coefficients. Neither can be number of shared ancestors be used as a reliable guide, as the inbreeding coefficient is very sensitive to when and where they occur in a pedigree.

http://www.netpets.com/dogs/healthspa/demyst.html

'Curiouser and curiouser' cried Alice.

Surely you couldn't be implying that the guardian of the Czech wolfdog breed in the UK would do such a thing? Is that why no one in Europe will trust a dog from the ~Uk?

Sorry, I will sort out the inbox.

Ooh another intersting topic on Dogsey! Hi everyone thought i better pop on so after having to request a new password here i am! :twisted: I would love to hear more from "Chacal" sounds very interesting now the dark nights are here and we are all cold and bored (well some might not be cold after regular medicinal alcoholic beverages ;-) ) anyway bring on the info. Just for the record i wouldnt touch a GSD with a barge pole a corgi might be a better option!

Hi Akna, what is it about the GSD that puts you off? Is it just the Uk ones or ones from elsewhere in the world also?

I have a GSD from german lines.

He is 8 now and a fantastic looking animal but mentally in a nut shell off his head! Fantastic worker (obedience, agility, running and guard) but hard to channel just like many other breeds with heavy german influence such as boxers, doberman etc so from that point of view NOT something you would want to enhance in a cross breed although to be fair most of these dogs are better quality in looks but out of most peoples price bracket! The english ones well you only have to look around the show ring to see whats been done to those dont you? Wasnt it also the GSD that has recently been stripped of its tickets in the ring because of the health issues? Not a good start is it? I wouldn't use Alaskan Malamute either, why would you. A lot of malamutes bred in the UK are showing more and more how dubious their temperments can be, another no no for a "designer" breed. Malamutes (i have been told by very experienced malamute breeders) never used to be like this and they too seem to be smaller in build with less bone too. A freighting breed loosing its original look for a beauty contest because thats what judges place so thats what becomes sought, nope and anyway (relating to comments on a similar thread) malamutes do not look nothing like wolves anyway. Huskies another delightful additive. Some husky lines are alleged crosses because of their dubious ancestory and some openly admit using wolf "back in the day" this is within europe of course, so a cross maybe depending on before you even start! My 9 year old "cross" Cheyenne has more siberian husky traits than any other cross i have owned or bred although i have only met a couple of other dogs similar to her over the ten years i have known these breeds. Huskies if they pass on that drive will cause problems because of prey drive, need to be worked and of course destructive behaviour that most behaviourists put down to stress or seperation when in fact thats a husky leave me with something wooden or soft and im gonna eat it! Many "inuit" owners will have or do experience this im sure! Also the recall can pose a problem too, not having one! Of course when this all started i believe prob with an admag and a bottle of vodka price of dogs bought would of been important so the cheapest were bought. No dogs were imported from abroad hell does anyone know the cost of importing a good quality dog from europe or the usa for that matter? Most people that import a dog do have checks, eye and heart checks have been available for 20 plus years in the states. Most have them live with a person so they can be trained or socialised and that all costs money. So far thats all 3 breeds out of the mix really. So the answer is if someone wants a "wolf look alike" because thats what they want then buy a pure bred wolfdog! Thats what they are proper wolf look alike, but not for a novice owner. Just like all 3 of the breeds orginally put in! I will also say here IF Ms Sansorrella or anyone else is starting again and going to produce a healthy, proper, bonafide (i have trouble stringing those word together in the same sentence as sansorrella) look alike, which look alike are they going to go for? The ones that are white? White heads? Long coats? Black and tan? Come off it how many inuit/ute whatever you wanna call them are producing consistant offspring? In fact how many even look like wolves? lol over to you!

Hello.

Ah, yes, Chacal, the one who had so much to say or insinuate, seems to have gone strangely quiet. I wonder why... could it be, they don't actually have any evidence to back up their accusations, and are just trolling. In which case, I'll put the soup on, whilst I dig out the troll spray, just incase.

I get the feeling, that if it was me, making those kinds of accusations and threats, against you, Shoshone or even JK, I'd have a mob demanding I prove it, and arguing over which one of you, will get to draw first blood. But as its someone many of you don't like, its ok, to bypass the common sence process. I suppose its much easier to hate someone, when you don't bother to considder that the person making the accusations against them, might not be being honist.

I also don't see, what this has to do with Marie and her litter. Both of which I've met, how many of you have done the same, or is throwing stones that much easier, when you don't know the person your aiming them at.

Just to pick you up on this comment

I think you will find its the badly bred (puppy farmed, inexperienced breeders etc etc) Malamutes that are loosing the true Malamute look. I think you will find some very very good examples of the breed at the moment in the show ring with correct bone and size. Have you ever been to look for yourself instead of listnening to someones opinion?
Shockingly as is the same with Sibes it appears that from these badly bred puppies also appears bad tempraments! Ive never met a bad Malamute or Sibe when Im at rallies and shows (I do see alot!) However working in rescue with dogs with no pedigree or history Ive met an awful lot of bad tempraments!

Edited to add: In NO way am I promoting that you people use ANY breed to further line your own pockets! Last month it was CSV's and now it GSD's and Mals and Sibes! You cant even decide what you want to do so I very much doubt that you really give 2 hoots about health and them being good examples of the breed. I really with you would think what you are doing to these poor dogs!

Not quite sure what accusations have been made, after a phone call i came on to remove suggestion that i was "Chacal" and also make comment about using the suggested breeds of dog earlier in the thread. It doesnt matter when one returns here its the same old crap over and over. I wouldnt dismiss Chacal as a liar though ;-)

Well, there was some accusations involving f1's by f1, I asume first gen wolfdog. It is an accusation, until it is proven to be true, and there is no proof at the mo.

What we've been left with, is an eastenders style cliffhanger, with what reads like a threat thrown in for a bit of extra drama.


Btw, I didn't think you were Chacal.

As for your comments on the breeds being used. I really can't comment on sib or mal, as I don't have much experience with the breeds.

As for gsds, the dogs used are the old style straight backed type, not the roached back german show types, or the imo quite hiena looking english show types. Whilst not suitable for everyone, I'd say a gsd, was more suitable for more people than say a saarloos. Me personally, I like the look of the saarloos, but wouldn't have one ever, I do quite like the csv though.

To answer another point you raised, about the look, I think the tundra wolf look, is the one being aimed for.

;-) lol.

Actually, temperaments used to be worse

Saying that, there are some lines in this country I wouldn't touch with a bargepole! Thankfully some breeders still put temperament high on their list of priorities

The smaller in build is an interesting one, given that the UK standard allows for larger Mals than any other country (including their country of origin). Is it of any suprise that we are now more in keeping with the rest of the world thanks to imports?

Lol i think you will find whether its a mal, sibe,gsd or many other breeds the breed standard is obviously overlooked by many judges in the UK and those that come to judge from abroad therefore makes the breed standards a mockery. Anyway as usual it all seems to be going off topic. Gemma i wasnt being defensive but then if thats how it looks.... Other people could be seen as being defensive as soon as THEIR breed is mentioned bit like when we are all talking about ours!

Interesting and thought provoking, thanks xx

Ref looking like wolves, I think some have a 'resemblence', some far more than others.

Why is that? Surely, they would want them as close to the originals as possible? Is it true that the Mals today may actually be quite recent dogs due to a near demise of the breed?

my opinion too.;-)