Opinions On Crossing GSDs with NIDs Controversial

Time wil tell Sandra ref your intentions and whether what you say here has any foundation. Can you tell us how you know that the GSD used 'is a few generations down the same line as the original gsd that was put into the NI breed all those years ago.' from your website.

Who, reputable from the GSD world will let you cross their dogs? Curious, I get the impression that 'reputable' breeders wont allow their dogs to be used in such a manner.
I am not saying whether this is right or wrong of them but I am pretty sure that is how it is in the dog world.

Also what about crossing the NID with the wolf dog, it wasn't long ago you said that was the way forward......until of course the BIDC cut ties with you.

Nes stop it please, you have purposely started two threads to speciffically target a couple people you have problems with. However the thread has developed quite well untill you again have posted a personal attack, I really dont do this, but i think I might report your post as a direct attack at another member.

I love your photos, I enjoy your threads, but pleas knock this on the head as you should really address your own dogs breeders issues when the sire has a hip score of 72! You go on so much about health yet you KNEW this when buying your pup and chose to ignore it, please dont judge others before you judge yourself.

Dawn, I have spent good money, time and effort on my chosen breed. I think I am more than entitled to ask legitimate questions. I do care about these dogs and I would like to know that the right thing is being done by them. I may think it isn't, that does not mean I cannot be convinced otherwise! If my posts annoy you, feel free to block me.

I wouldnt dream of "blocking" you Nes, why should I? Just stop targeting people you have issues with, why dont you approach them direct?

I totally believe you spent "good money" on your dogs, even when the sire scored 72, its an absolute disgrace isnt it, I appreciate how angry you must feel, but you must appreciate that whatever crossbreeding you do not agree with (I dont either) at least health testing IS being done which is much more that can be said about a lot of NI's!

my personal view on this is,

if people who in the past did terrible things with there breeding are now at least making an effort, we must give them a chance, otherwise what was the point in all the threads on this forum, outing there bad practice, pushing health testing, everything that has happend here on dogsey, and lets face it there have been many threads,

if at least all the shouting that has been done by people about this breed is now having some impact and breeders are starting to health test, the whole thing has been worth while.

Now I to hope that for once we will be proved wrong and that one person, may try to produce these dogs with some health testing behind them,

there is clearly a market for these types of dogs, so they will continue to be in demand,

for the sake of the dogs, we must try to encourage people to continue health testing

For me, if this all falls the same way as the last attempts have then I despair for this breed.

Grons are Obvisley Black, & Tervs Are Shaded, slightly Darker over the Withers but not so Much Saddle as a GSD, more just a shaded area
. Its often the saddle that makes NIs look GSDy

I agree with this. I do not, never have agreed with crossbreeding and the NI in general for what the founder breeders did. Now at least, animals with health testing is in place, its a start, its the right direction.

Thankyou, yes I agree if health tests are being done and it is a planned preeding programme learning from the mistakes of the past then its a step in the right direction
People want wolfy type dogs - they should at least have healthy ones

Well said,

Sorry for the delay in replying but I haven't been on the pc.

Thats a very good question.

Firstly, it needs to be said that we are not just planning on crossing with GSDs - that would give too much GSD appearance. We have Sibes and Mals lined up - and obviously the owners of these dogs do not want it getting out that they have let us use these dogs, so it isn't going to be plastered all over the internet - but I guarantee that the pedigrees will be correct and puppy buyers will be fully aware.

The BUA have crossed with a GSD bitch and we are watching that litter with interest, as they are watching us.

Unless we own a good GSD bitch it is much easier to take our bitches to a GSD stud than to have a GSD owner have an NI cross litter for us. If we were to buy in a GSD bitch for the purpose of having a litter for our breeding programme I am sure there are those on this forum who would revel in tearing us apart.

However, as some of us are planning on going back into GSDs again, as a second breed, its not entirely out of the question.

More GSD matings are not planned though in the immediate future.

As GSDs, Mals and Sibes were used in the first place, it has been natural that we should go back to these breeds and not the BSD, although I did consider this a few years ago and got jumped on by TIDA, if I remember rightly.

PS for Nes - I know that dog on my website is related to the GSD used in founding the NI because I have done my research and know the breeder and the lines. I wouldn't have said it on my website if it wasn't true!

btw we are using sables that come from sable lines and throw sables - to avoid the saddle as much as possible.

Why would the breeders of the other breeds not want to be known? Surely they are doing a 'good deed' for the NI breed by helping with this? And won't the dogs be named on the pedigree, so will probably become known at some point?

Of course owners of quality dogs don't want to be seen to be crossing with NI and producing crossbreeds - they would get a lot of flack and be snubbed by their own breed clubs. But as they are good enough to want to help us in what we are doing we are abiding by their wishes. As already said, the pedigrees are correct and thats all that matters.

Let's hope they never get found out then!

Won't it be in the book!!!

Oh look Abbie has popped in also.

and so they should!!!

Mick

I think its hilarious that NI people are having a go about this..after all what crosses are your own dogs???

If the owners of the Sibes, GSDs and Mals, genuinely think that this is a worthwhile and ethical project, why are they not proud to be part of it? Or is it that they know it is not a good thing to be part of, but are doing it for the money?

Mick

I am lost for words. If it was a true programme, one that was geuine and was creating a new breed, well thought out and professional , I surely there would be some 'decent' breeders out there that would willingly let their dogs be used and would put their names to it. If not, then such people would not want to touch the idea with a barge poll.

The fact remains that certain people involved in this process , on this forum said that NIDs are a walking health time bomb. I cannot understand how crossing what they have deemed an 'unhealthy' breed would produce decent dogs, If they really believed that NIDs were so bad then they would forget the NID and move on to another breed, not cross existing NIDs that they own.

I am sorry to say but it simply looks like a money making mission. NID to NID isn't an option due to burnt bridges, same with NID to Wolf Dog, so the next move appears to be the GSD, due to accessibility.

I say again, surely it makes sense that anyone who cared about dogs and truly believed that the NID was so unhealthy, fake pedigrees etc, would simply not breed from their existing dogs, period.

I have nothing further to add.

As a GSD person I would hope no self respecting GSD owner would fall in with this ill conceived plan.

If these people are truly trying to produce a healthy mongrel/crossbreed that looks like a wolf, they would have started with the very best dogs of each breed. Every dog in the program would have the best of health results & 150% temperament. In stead they are back tracking & will end up using dogs of low quality & probably poor health results(or even worse none)adding to all the problems they bred in with the first progeny