The popularity of/handling wolf dog types Discussions

Crossbreeding dogs doesnt make dogs dangerous or difficult to handle. What makes dogs fall into this category is: poor socialisation; lack of structure and discipline; lack of exercise and interest/positive motivational satisfaction; mistreatment and/or "spoiling" a dog at the worst times.

There are many owners of Saarloos, CZW and their crosses who act responsibly, care and love for their animals and are rewarded accordingly.

There are no "statistics" to suggest these dogs are any more dangerous or unruly in this country than any other dogs. There is however plenty of evidence to suggest a unique "bias" against them in some quarters and plenty of negative sensiatanolism on certain forums.

This topic is about the COAPE course. Hopefully Petrina will come back and either confirm or deny what ive said about practical assessments. I dont have anything against COAPE as an organisation however people who are not practically assessed on courses can and should be open to criticism-and of course to state their own case.

As, im sure your aware, there are many people who claim to be wolfdog experts that have yet to meet one

Anyway its time for beddy byes

quite enjoyed this one, a debate with no real slanging matches!

nite nite all

I agree, but the main problem is inappropriate homing in the first place.

Night Jon.

I agree that some of these dogs have been homed inappropriately, but that unfortunately happens with all breeds and in the wrong hands the behaviour of any dog can be untypical of that breed and undesirable.

Following some reported incidents in the SW of the country it was felt that trainers, behaviourists etc. needed to know more about these dogs.

I have been in touch with the organisers of this seminar, as I had hoped to attend but other committments mean I can't make it. I was concerned that if the presentation was biased, this seminar could result in scaremongering.

However, having talked to these people I am sure that the seminar will benefit anyone involved with this type of dog - owners, trainers, behaviourists, vets etc. They will be differentiating between the wolf lookalike breeds, pure wolfdogs and the wolfdog hybrids (crosses).

I know several dog trainers and behaviourists who are attending this seminar, some of whom have many years experience of these dogs and I am sure will soon speak their minds if they think people are talking without having any real experience of these dogs.

As the popularity of this type of dog increases it is good that owners want to attend training classes with their dogs - in fact I recommend all my puppy buyers to take their pup training - and trainers need to be aware of how to get the best from these dogs and how best to advise owners. (Yes, they should have done their research first and breeders shouldn't sell to inappropriate homes, but we all know this isn't a perfect world and if someone is determined to have something they will tell a breeder what they know that breeder wants to hear - which is sometimes far from the truth - then they end up with a dog they don't know how to handle and yet another dog becomes a problem dog).

In this respect I have invited trainers and behaviourists wanting to learn more to come and get hands on experience by spending time out and about with my pack. I hope that trainers attending this seminar will take me up on my offer.

Incidentally, the description has been changed on a few breeders websites since many people were confusing 'wolfdog hybrid' with the American meaning of hybrid - a wolf hybrid. The UK meaning of hybrid is a cross - in this instance a wolfdog breed crossed with another breed. To save any confusion by this play on words, the term 'wolf lookalike' is again being used.

I will be interested to hear from people attending this seminar, to see how it went.

thats good to hear hope you let us know the 'low-down' ;-) ;-)
ps...the red...sadly oh so true :-( :-(

Well seeing as I'm not a member, (just a student on one of the smaller courses) and that I haven't taken that course myself I can't really say either way, you can always contact them and ask yourself?

Perhaps this from the website might help a bit?

I don't think there's many people that 'buy in' to the diploma as it were, but everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Student but would absolutley love too!

You are most welcome to meet the pack

Sorry to return to this thread a bit late but I would like to respond to a couple of points:

I wasn't trying to tar them all with the same brush, merely express my experience and that of others who have reported their experiences to me over the past 15-20 years. Many of the owners of dogs "with issues" that we have taken into welfare/assessed over the past few years had paid out large sums to "behaviourists" with no beneficial effect whatever (except to the bank account of the behaviourist). One classic case was the lady who had paid £3000 over a five year period to a variety of behaviourists in an attempt to get her husky to stop pulling on the lead. In the end she was so despairing that she relinquished the dog to us. It took my wife (who has no qualifications but 30+ years experience) about 25 minutes to stop the problem. Examples like this (and my own experience as a trainer of practitioners in my own field) is why I am personally so cynical.
Your daughter, on the other hand sounds to have exactly the right mix of practical experience and training to make her a success in the field.

Not confused about the difference, but I have to say my cynicism encompasses both professions

I hope the seminar goes well and is useful

Mick

Hi Petrina,

Thanks for your answer. As far as Im aware COAPE do not assess people in person with dogs-this is my understanding. Somebody can feel free to correct me if im wrong. The assessment is a videographic one where candidates discuss behaviours of their chosen dog etc. At no point is the instructor, candidate and dog in the same room at the same time. This does not seem like a practical assessment to me-just my opinion.

I think some people, including myself, who own Saarloos or their crosses, are a little sceptical because of the many claims of certain members of the dog fraternity to be "experts" in the field, when in fact they have yet to meet one of these animals.

The COAPE advert with the snarling "GSD" does nothing to add confidence and seems rather irrelevant to the published course outline. Seems a bit sensational and wholly inaccurate certainly regards my limited personal experience of these dogs.

Having said that, I aint been on the course and first impressions are obviously sometimes completely wrong.

I hope you take Sandra up on her kind offer and get the chance to meet some of these animals anyway.

Hi Geezer

When I contacted them and pointed out some of the inaccuracies in their advertising, they said that it was done very quickly and was left in the hands of the web designers - so they obviously didn't get the pictures they really needed.

I pointed out that there are huge differences in the breeding and nature between the wolf lookalikes, the crosses and even between the pure wolfdog breeds themselves and this needs to be pointed out. They said that this would be happening at the seminar.

I agree that first hand experience of these dogs is what is needed and that is why my offer is open to COAPE, and anyone else wanting to learn and experience these dogs first hand.

The offer has been open to Dogsey members for quite a while now and I am pleased that some Dogseyers have taken me up on that offer and enjoyed the experience.


PS
(Girliebiker - you weren't meant to buy a pup when you visited - that wasn't the idea at all - but thats the effect my pack has on people!)

I find it very novel that several people who make judgements on here do not own nor have come into contact with any of the dogs described in the seminar discussion.....but then thats always been the dogsey route for people slandering on the "mixed and crossbred" dog section. I will be attending the seminar along with several other csv cross owners of my dogs and i am very satisfied with how my crosses behave and what they are doing in their homes! However i would perhaps urge more of you to perhaps partake in going in meeting up with people who ARE responsible wolfdog, wolf look alike or wolf cross owners. I can offer anyone (as i frequently do) a visit to meet my dogs having crosses or to attend training, although i suppose Sansorella most certainly can offer the extra seeing as she has more unusual crosses like a wolf cross is that not correct Sandra? ;-) Although from what i saw of your dogs at the last seminar we went too i wouldnt say it would be a fitting introduction to a novice as even your inuits were out of control! One of them in particular is highly aggressive so perhaps i would try hard to get along to the seminar as maybe you could learn something! I would also like to add that one of the trainers has experience with rottweilers and akitas, two other shall we say difficult novice owner breeds and i take my hat off to her as she still owns akitas and they by no means are an easy dog. As for the other lady she obviously has spent time watching, learning and observing wolves etc which is by far a better way to gain experience then just reading a book and filling out an essay...give them a break the proof of their knowledge and expertise will be by what we learn at their event. I would get you tickets booked because they are selling out thick and fast and i am qualified and experienced but always willing to learn more...perhaps others should take a leaf!

anyone is welcome to meet Tupac my pure csv he is always at the surgery with me ;-) ;-)

But they have had plenty of time to change them as this flyer has been around for months!

Tupacs could i ask where your csv came from and how does it behave?

hi Akna
Tupac is a typical teenager,but also very laid back,i have had no issues with him....yet!lol...he comes to work with me everyday(vets)and is in reception so he also meets other animals,people and children
he is litter mate to Quest so he is a 'wolfzone' boy ;-)

Anyway seeing as x factor wasnt on.......so whose going to the seminar?

I'm going, think it will be very interesting

Lucky you. Let me know what you think of it.

I'd really like to go, but being unable to drive, is proving to be a bit of a pain.

Coape are actively against some old fashioned trainning methods:

http://www.coape.org/awsn.html

A campaign against: " ‘behaviourists’ who persist in deploying those long out-of-date ‘dominance reduction’ and one-size-fits-all ‘nothing in life is free’ programmes in the name of behavioural therapy."