Irish Staffordshire terrier facts vrs myths Discussions

I love these dogs, always have always will, although I know that fighting is in their heritage I would never be proud of that fact, and what use is a dog's fighting ability today? These dogs make great pets, are loyal and just plain gorgeous, and Longford, I use to volunteer in a Staff rescue, and believe me it is another word for the PB, a name that people use to try and get away with BSL, but a rose by any other name and all that.

I don't have a Staff or a ISBT but I will talk about them, I mean this is a open forum is it not?

As for having any of the names in your ped if you looked right back there would be as there all down from the same dogs and if you found some of those names in your ped you would be a very blessed.
See the difference is people taken on the word irish stafford if you had read the post i originally posted which talked about the kc dogs some of you may of twigged we are not talking about scabby street bred mutts but the real deal dogs.The origanal standard was 18 inch also the new breed standard states the desired height is 16 inch but some seem to take this to the letter but if you look at past and present staffords in the show ring there are dogs above this and at present many judges are not looking at height but a well balanced dog.As for terrier in these dogs is it true because at present they dont know and many would argue there is not as only some bull dogs were bred with terriers.

Also up untill 1935 staffords were known as pitbull and terriers so is the present stafford not a pitbull ??

Here is a little bit about true irish staffords

The Dublin Red Strain

The cornerstone sire of the Dublin Red Strain was Willie Delaney's dog "Brindle Devil" and the foundation dam owned by my uncles friend Eddie Byrnes red bitch,

One dog out of Arrogant Resistance was called Shanty of Dublin, a brindle dog owned by Al Brown

The two key dogs to start the Dublin Red Line in the USA
Shanty of Dublin - IKC 89028 and Arrogant Devil - IKC-88853 both dogs out of Willie Delaney's (Ch.Brindle Devil - IKC-83799) x Eddie Byrnes (Arrogant Resistance - IKC-7524)

Please note the IKC stands for the irish kennel club

Al Brown while visiting Trinity Collage Dublin, Al was checking out the college for his son back in the USA during his down time on his tour of Dublin decided to check out good badger dogs and was lead to Willie Delaney and both Al Brown and Willie Delaney went out the next day on a badger dig, Willie took out Brindle Devil and Brown was so impressed with his performance asked Willie did he have anything for sale that he wanted to take one of these bull dogs back to the USA to see how they went on wild boar, well at the time Willie had no puppies available but connected Al Brown to family friend Eddie Byrnes who at the time had just used Willies dog Brindle Devil on his bitch Arrogant Resistance.

It was about 4-5 years later Willie Delaney was given an old copy of the USA pit magazine, your friend and mine to look at, on the front cover was Al Brown and Shanty of Dublin, I guess the story of wanting to try the staffords on wild boar was a lie or maybe that was his original intentions but the fact was that these dogs were being run in the pits and rolling with APBT's and in many cases holding their own.

So that was the first real start for the Dublin Reds, you will read lots of different stories on the internet on how it was all started but I can assure you that what I'm telling you is the way it was really all started and "Brindle Devil" was the start of it all.

So being that it was legal to take badger and the IKC were giving out certifcations to good game dogs, the staford lads were going out every weekend on badger digs, I went on a few with Willie when I was a whipper snapper and remember lots of fun stuff, but being that the badgering was in and all the staff lads wanted to produce good game dogs and the fact that the boys in the USA were all over the pit magazines every month, it wasn't long before that word got back to Ireland that Willie Delaney's pups out of Brindle Devil were producing some real game dogs in the USA.

Quite a few of the lads back in Dublin used Brindle Devil one of the men to use Brindle Devil being Bobby Watts, mating his bitch Battling Beauty to Brindle Devil and produced both Battling Dutchess and Battling Devil... and that was the start of the Dublin Reds in Ireland.

Bobby Watts and Shamus McNutt, Tony Lee started producing some great badger dogs out of Brindle Devil and Al Brown and Pete Sparks producing great dogs in the USA... so the Dublin Red was born.

You had so many stafford lads breeding around half brothers and half sisters to Brindle Devil constantly producing dead game dogs in the field and pit and Tony Lee was another man to use Willies dogs, Tony being a very good family friend to the Delaney's as was all the stafford fancy Bobby Watts, Shamus McNutt etc...

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South Tipperary Canine Club - Major Terrier Trails - Dead Game Certificate, 1960
Willie Delaney's - Ch. The Great Roger - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier)
Raymond McEvoy's - Binglea Jokers name. - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier)
Judges: Mr G. Doyle, Mr W. Malone and Mr P. O'Neill

The Sporting Terrier Club - Teastas Mor Certificate, Hacketstown Co. Carlow, 14th of October 1961
Bobby Watts - Battling Devil - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier)
Judges: Mr. P. O'Neil and Mr. J. Ward.

The Sporting Terrier Club - Teastas Mor Certificate, Blessington, Co. Wicklow, 7th September 1958
Willie Delaney's - Ch. Brindle Devil - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier)
Willie Delaney's - Ch. Swing Clear - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier)
Eddy Byrne's - Arrogant Resistance - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier)
Bobby Watts - Battling Beauty - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier)
Frank Fallon's - Fearless Dan - (Glen of Imaal Terrier)
Judges: Mr. E.Casey, Mr.J.Carolan and Mr.J.Doyle.

The Irish Working Terrier Club Association - Certificate of Merit, Major Trials, Cork, September 1976
Fleville's - Wolf Island Boy - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier)

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Willie Delaney's Dog - (Ch.Brindle Devil) - Reg# IKC 83799 Sire of:
Shanty of Dublin
Arrogant Devil
Battling Devil - Bob Watts
Battling Duchess - Seamus Mc Nutt
Ch.The Great Roger - (Brindle Devil x Brindle Bonny) also Dead Game Certificate South Tipperary Canine Club 1960
Satan's Son - (Brindle Devil x Brindle Bonny)
Ch.Fawn and Fancy
Ch.Brindle Wee Lass
Ch.Bonnie MacGregor
Great Caesar

Ch.Brindle Devil's Grandchildren
Tony Lee's - Red Commando = Double Grandson (Brindle Devil)
Riycil's Devil's Maid
Frazer of Ireland

Ch.Brindle Devil's Great Grandchildren
Wolf Island Boy

Hoped this has cleared it up a little

And I repeat - while SBT owners get sweatily excited about who ripped the face off who a hundred years ago the breed will always have a bad reppie.
In the UK SBT owners have fought this for years - giving the dog a reputation of being a great family dog and lovely with children. All gone to pot now, of course with hormonal chavs posturing on street corners...and people harping on about blood sports.

what breed do you own and why?

times have changed yes,good job really because most kc reg staffs would of been culled at birth, like most breeds of today they have been tampered and altered into what fanciers perceive as to what there particular breed of choice should look and act likekc and most of todays idiot dog fanciers have ruined many of breed, call me old fashioned call me a chav call me what you like because i choose health and temp over anything else,would i won't a people friendly, children friendly bulltterier?of course i would,indeed i own one,he is both physically and temperamentally perfect, could i show him?well no,he doesn't conform to kc standard
would i want to show him?lmao champions of what?you win a Rossetti and a pat on the back,what good is that when you are being mugged? so why do i choose a dog with such a back ground as our breed?at 6ft3 161/2 stone benching 140 kilos,do i need a dog to look macho?i think not,the answer is simple,a true bulldog in temp is all i aspire to be as a human being,ill elaborate, i love and cherish my family,i will not inflict my ego onto anybody else i will not cause a fight,i will not be intimidated/bullied by anybody,i will lay down my life for my family if the need arises,i live by this code and would only want to own a dog that does the same hence the bull dog being my dog of choice.When I walk him people cross over the road with there dogs,if i cross paths with other dog owners in the park 70 percent of there labs/gsd ext will bark lung and growl at my silently bemused bull terrier,he has nothing to prove he does not indulge in threat displays,i wounder if he portrays such confidence that this unsettles some dogs causing these outbursts in any case it is some what annoying having somebody sneering at you while dragging there ill behaved rude mutt away from you like its you thats the problem,now back to this post there are youths and some little minded people that are in to our breed for the wrong reasons but that don't give nobody the right to tar us all with the same brush,just because you are interested in what genetically makes your dog tick because u admire gameness undeniable loyalty and the sheer will power strength and tenacity of a real workable staffy or pitbull for that matter it don't make every body an hormonal chave with a blood lust, in my eyes that remark makes you as ignorant as the youth/peeps you are describing. just one more thing ed ried was writeing books on irish staffs featuring apbt before pitbulls were even banned in the uk,so no they are not the same breed.

Well said the monk the people that are mis informed are the gullible masses that read mis informed press articles and all the hype and believe everything that is written I love the breed for what it is and you cannot even compare the breed to anything else they are the ultimate canines and yes they should be kept as working animals and we are not talking from a 100 years we are talking less and certain blood lines are highly sought after as they havent been spoilt like many others

I think you have gotten the wrong end of the stick here. Claire wasn't saying that she believes the bad press, just that the reputation of the Staffie has been tarnished by chavs. Which it has. And yapping on about fighting does nothing to help that image of thugs owning the breed. My own breed was (and still is) used to guard livestock in the mountains and they would kill wolves and poachers. They wore a heavy metal spiked collar and were ferocious with anything or anyone they percieved as a threat to their flock. This is NOT the image I would like my dogs to be known for. They are gentle family dogs first and foremost. I just wish that owners of fighting breeds would try to promote the positive socially acceptable traits of their breed, instead of discussing which lines were the best in the pit. Staffs, Pit Bulls etc. will continue to be abused in this way as long as there are people looking backwards instaed of forwards.

Agree completey with you, it seems we have an infiltration of hero worship of the "fighting" history of some breeds, by a few !!


And like some others am a little concerned of the glorification by some, of a breeds history, no matter how much they protest and throw other statistics at us.

The stereotype of egotistical men, with macho dogs , is alive and kicking it seems

I`m going to attempt a response to your diatribe.. not sure why. Maybe because I actually like dogs. They can`t help who owns them

no-one said SBTs were the same breed as APTs. Because a dog is bred in Ireland doesn`t make it a different `Irish` breed. My two GSPs were bred in Ireland. They are not Irish Shorthaired Pointers. They are German Shorthaired Pointers.
It may have escaped your notice, but people have been getting round the DDA by calling their dogs `Irish Staffs` when they are in fact Pit mixes. There is no such breed as an Irish Staff. There are Staffordshire Bull Terriers bred in Ireland. This doesn`t make them a separate breed.

The title of the original thread was bound to lead through the history of the breed,it seemed to me that Clair was picking on people who are mealy trying to shed some light on this topic,yes we all agree that certain individuals do cast dark shadows on the breed but lets have this right,a chav(as you put it)would not know a performance breed dog if one fell on him, in short a chav will breed any male on to any female just because they are the same breed,thats why most kc reg staffs are 2 a penny, short fat and useless,please don't take offense if you do have a proper one a proper dog man will not sell good stock to just anyone all though admittedly mistakes and sometimes greed can and does dictate were a pup ends up but for the most part i would say the average chav owns an average dog,no were in this thread have i read anything glorifying dog fighting,just facts being shared so as to enlighten those of us that are interested in this topic I.E is there really such a breed as the so called Irish staff or is it a cover name for an apbt,is it a cross bred mutt or just a long legged staff,what was it used for in days of old,how can any of these questions be answered if the history of the breed is not talked about.

I'm 35 years old,i have a nice home with which i share with 2kids and a soon to be wife,i am self employed and i do ok,im not wareing soverighns, gold chains and burbery caps,so am i chav i hope not, my family owned apbt when i was growing up long before the word chav was invented,i have owned abds and pure irema curto presa canarios 1 pit and now an isbt,yes its true some people do use the name as a cover for pitbulls but why would Keith do that when he lives in America and owns a pitbull?use your Internet you will find dogs like physco Milo,the Dublin Flynn strain being referred to as isbt not pitbulls and those dogs were around again when pitbulls were not banned clair you really don't have a clue i mean you own 2 Shep's ffs, word of advice get your self some proper dogs ;-)

Well, after a comment like that above, there is realy no point in trying to talk to such a idiot.

Me thinks you may have turned into a troll, one with muscles and an ego !!

WTH are proper dogs then? I'd like to know

One wonders ,

Is there any proper record keeping going on in these breeds? I bet half the dogs sold as Irish Staff have no papers at all, so who's to know whether they have pit in them or not? Maybe it was distinct at one point, but now it just looks like a big mess, aided by the DDA.

I'm wondering whether mine are dogs? If real dogs are just bully breeds I must have stuffed toys or something, or just false dogs well I did always wonder why they liked their cuddles so much.

Do you know anything ??this what was discussed you have people selling dogs and calling them irish when they are not then you have circles where you can get real deal working stock used in the field not the pit that are very well bred and also some of the irish strains (red strain)that are still kc registered stock also i have a book with all the irish dogs peds and most were bred like a science ie thats why they were so succesful and maybe thats why people from the us are so impressed with them as there blood was so succesful anyhow this post was informative topic untill it was hijacked by tree hugging hippies;-)

Irish bred whats??

The point that is being made , is that there is no such thing as an Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

The SBT is a breed in its own right it is a KC recognized breed.


The APBT is or is not a pure breed depending on its ancestry, but regarding the Staffie, you put the "Irish" in front of the name, it will proberbly be from dubious breeding...


A staffie Bull is a Staffie Bull regardless the country its born in.. If they are born in timbuktu, you dont call them a timbuktu staffie bull terrier.. they are a SBT...

when we hear ISBT, then they are more than likely pits or type being smuggled into the country under false pretence.

As for the the thread being hijacked by tree hugger ............

I second that both you and Kieth have posted some interesting stuff on this thread but im sorry there are a lot of clueless people posting too