Alsatian Shepalute Discussions

Me thinks the "Lady" doth protest too much ;-)

Jann
xxx

Shepalute, the post of which this quotation is part was exceptionally rude. I'm not going to get involved in the discussion surrounding your dogs, but a person educated in genetics and breeding, which you are holding yourself out to be, would know the difference between 'prodigy' and 'progeny'. The fact that you don't seem to makes me think that you have not researched genetics, but just bred animals together to see what comes out. Your opinions may differ with those of the people on this board, but don't tell us we are uneducated then make such basic mistakes then in the field you claim to have researched.

Hello Everyone-

Please allow me to help answer some of your questions about the Alsatian Shepalute. You were having a beautiful discussion earlier. I do not normally talk on dog forums and I won't remain beyond this discussion, but you have raised some great questions that were not answered.

BTW Shilaki, Lois is known for her spelling and vocabulary errors. You do not know her, but I have known Lois since the beginnings of this breed in 1987 and IMHO she is a genius at what she does. I realize many who've posted on this thread will not agree with me. That's fine.

I'd like to mention that I have not joined this discussion to change your minds about dog breeding or any beliefs you hold dear. I'd simply like to help those of you who are interested in information about this new breed of dog. Yes, I did say breed and I'll explain what I mean by that.

Also, you are welcome to check out the club forum , where many of your questions may have already been answered.

Ok, when does a mix between two (or more) dogs become a new breed of dog? Chaz answered this question well, in my opinion.

The Alsatian Shepalute has a standard.

The Alsatian Shepalute has been pure of breed (meaning it begets itself similarly in health, temperament, and looks) since 1993, 5 years after the original mix of shepherd/malamute. The outcross lines in 1996 and 2005 were bred as separate lines and placed into the purebred lines when Lois was solid on the benefits of the outcross.

Health was and is very important in our dogs. Lois monitored and listed all health problems for each breeding from the beginning. She has binders full (I've seen them) of each breeding and the results, including pictures of both mother and father. You can check most of them out on the Alsatian Shepalute Museum website.

The National Alsatian Shepalute Registry registers purebred Alsatian Shepalutes as well as outcross dogs. The National Alsatian Shepalute Club promotes the welfare of this breed.

BTW: AKC requires 3 generations and 500 dogs throughout the US to join their Foundation Stock Service. If you feel the outcross in 1996 should start the numbers over, my two Alsatian Shepalute females are 5th and 7th generations.

I would like to address the question about whether this breed of dog would ever be recognized by an all breed kennel club. That answer is no. We, the club and the founder do not seek it nor do we want it. Lois has been asked to join the American Rare Breed Association, the United Kennel Club, the American Kennel Club, and... there was another that I can't remember at this moment. She refused them then and will refuse them in the future.

In order to understand our strong convictions in this area you have to understand the philosophy behind it. It has been discussed at the club forum more in depth, but I'll briefly try to describe it here.

Simply put, our club feels that the Alsatian Shepalute breed club has the most knowledge about the health, temperament, and looks of the Alsatian Shepalute. We do not want to hand over our breed standards to an all-breed kennel club who may not feel the same way toward our breed as we do. We do not want judges placing dogs that do not fit our strict temperament and health protocols because a particular dog is the best looking. Looks are the least important, although we have a standard for looks and Lois breeds closer to it when the temperament and health is right. That is why our dogs continue to look similar to the Shiloh or King Shepherds, or some would say badly bred German Shepherd Dogs.

Many discussing the Alsatian Shepalute have mentioned culling. This has recently been addressed on the National Alsatian Shepalute Club Forum, please refer to that post if you are interested in the answer to this complex and intense debate around culling. It's a lot to explain here. Thanks.

Apparently links to other dog forums are not allowed here. You can find the National Alsatian Shepalute Club Forum link at the Alsatian Shepalute Links site if you are interested in reading about what I've referenced.

I would love to see a letter from the AKC asking one singular breeder to allow their "creation" to be registered - wheras everywhere else in the World many many years and many many dfiiferent lines have to be bred and fantastic records keps before the registries allow a breed to be accepted on board ..... and it is the breed enthusiasts who approach the registry ....

It is impossible to declare a breed pure after just 5 years, in reality, if we take year one as the first litter being born this would mean just 2 or 3 generations at the most which simply is not enough generations to establish a new type. However, as has been noted on the website bitches are mated at their first season at about 8 months so if we take that then that would still only be a mere 5 or 6 generations, putting the moral and ethical issues over mating such an immature bitch aside. Although I would say on this front it would be impossible to ascertain whether a dog so young fits any breed standard as it would be both physicaly and emotionally immature.

Have the dogs actually been TESTED for the various complaints that afflict both GSD's and Malamutes? Having binders full of information is irrelevant if you are not actually testing physically in the form of hip scores, elbow grading, eye exams etc etc. So to most of us on here, unless that is actually being dones any claims as to the health of the breed are irrelevant as you have no actual proof.

I think most of us on here will tell you that we don't mind if you don't want your particular breed recognised by a national kennel club, that is your prerogative. However, I refer you to my previous notes concerning both health and the fact that you believe a breed can be pure after just 5 years. I would also question the point as to what is the point of creating a breed that looks exactly like those that have already been established. Most of us simply don't see the point.

If you breed a litter then you are responsible for that whole litter and to kill off puppies at a young age because they don't fit the standard is morally and ethically wrong. Most of us on here would question how you can tell that a new born pup doesn't fit the standard. Unless it has an obvious deformity then the only selection criteria can be colour or gender, and to kill a puppy simply because it is the wrong colour or the wrong sex is abhorrent.
Becky

Just curious, I've read somewhere about temperament testing, what is envolved in this testing. Also, what health tests are done on the breeding dogs before they are bred from. I maybe wrong, but it was my understanding that a dog shouldn't be hipscored until it as about 12 months old or older. If a bitch is being bred on her first season, at 8/9 months old, the likelyhood of scoring being done, is slim. My point, you can't really assess the soundness of a dogs hips by outword appearance alone, as some dogs can be displastic without showing any outward signs.

Also, I don't know any responsible breeder who'd breed a bitch at 8 months old. The bitch is simply not mature enough.

As it is mentioned that these dogs are to resemble the dire wolf, yet you state that appearance is hardly important. However, if one of the main points mentioned about these dogs is how they're suposed to look like a dire wolf, then appearance it would seem, is slightly more important then you give it credit fore.

Finally, I posted a pic of a dire wolf earlier in this thread, just wondered, as you own these dogs, how close you think your dogs, and the breed/type in general is to this animal in appearance. What points you think are there, and what needs improvement.

Would love to see some pics of your dogs.

hi Tazer
forgive me if this has been answered;-) if apearence is not important,health tests are not performed and they are bred from at an early age,what is the purpose of creating this new breed?(where culling is performed) do you get me?:? :?

I get you, and am wondering the same. I don't think it has been answered yet. However, from what I've read, their purpose is as a companion, that according to what I've read, doesn't bark much if at all, won't dig up your garden, doesn't need much exercise, and looks like an extinct species of wolf. It would seem, that no other breed in the world can fill these requirements apparantly.

Strangely, my labs can fill those requirements. They hardly bark, never dig, will do as much or as little exercise as you want. However, they don't look like any kind of wolf.

http://shepaluteclub.tripod.com/nascmuseum/foundation.html

No mention of any health tests.

so they`re German Shepherds for thick or lazy people? Actually - that`s quite niche market!

yes it is!! but a cuddly toy on wheels does the same thing;-)

As I asume this was aimed in mygeneral direction, I will answer it.

From the alsatian shepalute club forum.

Nobody is against having a pup pts if it is going to suffer.

What me and so many others find disgusting and outdated is culling pups that have no health defects, arn't going to spend their life in pain. They might just have the wrong coat texture or colour, no ridge on the back when there is expected to be one, being a bit on the small side or having an extra toe. These animals can and do live happy healthy lives. There should of course be breeding restrictions placed on them, and in 99.9% of cases be spayed/nutered, but is that an exceptable reason to kill them.

Now try to justify that, culling for appearances sake.

I couldn't possibly comment.

Hello Everyone-

It seems many would like to know about health testing in this breed. Here's the history of health testing in these dogs.

Keep in mind that there has always been only one breeder, the founder, and so she is aware of each and every issue that has arisen in any dogs through the lines.

All foundation stock and first generation dogs were hip tested as well as had vet. health exams for a multitude of other possible problems. The only dogs with any signs of hip weakness within the lines were the very first German shepherd purebreds. Purebred dogs were not bred if they showed any signs of severe hip dysplasia. No first generation dogs were found to have hip dysplasia. Although dogs after this were not tested formally, as in getting x-rays, no hip problems were ever experienced. Upon knowing about one 14th generation dog with floating cartilage in her elbow, Lois also tested the 12th and 13th generation dogs for hip and elbow dysplasia. Both dogs had excellent scores. Nevertheless, that particular mating which produced one dog with elbow issues was never repeated.

All puppies are observed for health issues from birth. The following is looked for and recorded:
~the date at which each pup starts crawling and walking
~the date at which each pup opens eyes
~the date at which each pup starts feeding other than milk from the mother
~temperament is assessed by how the pup reacts to its mother's harsh treatment, such as picking up, chewing umbilical cord, nosing aggressively, mouthing, etc. (looking for pups that are too still and quiet and/or pups who are excessively whining)

All puppies are taken to the veterinarian at 6-8 weeks of age. The following is looked for and recorded:
~Overall bone shape and proper alignment and structure of bones
~Heart (correct rhythm)
~Eyes (no secretion and dog can see)
~Ears (clean, make sure dog can hear)
~Mouth (strong teeth, under bite or overbite)
~Nose clear
~Throat clear
~Legs strong
~Stands dog on back and front feet and checks for weakness
~Rotation of hip joints to make sure hip socket is fine
~Make sure dog has both testicles
~Check for dewclaws
~Check for debris in coat
~Weight
~Anal glands
~Tail
Each pup then receives a veterinarian's health certificate.

Temperament Testing

As with the health testing, there's a form that Lois uses for each pup at various stages of its growth. I'll post what I can when I receive it. I know a little of it off hand, but the form is more complete than my memory.