Irish Staffs & American Staffs - Difference? Questions

Hi,

I knew to the forum, so i'll start by introducing myself.....

I'm 32, live in Middlesbrough, UK and own a 3 month old brindle & white English Bull Terrier puppy. He's certainly like no other puppy I have ever experienced but he's a real character and although he winds me up beyond belief and is very very hard work, I love him to bits and he's well worth the extra effort!

Anyway, I am looking for a companion for him within the next few months. I was considering a staffie but I have been advised that he would knock hell out of one when he gets a bit bigger as his dad weighed in at over 90lb's and mother 70lb's. So, I have been made aware of American or Irish Staffies which are longer legged and heavier which should be able to tolerate the boisterous nature on an EBT.

After looking on the ineternet, I have seen a few pictures of Irish Staffies which are described as Blue in colour and I think they look amazing...so, questions are:

What's the difference between American Staffs and Irish Staffs?
Are they big enough to handle rough play with an EBT?
What size are they?
Does anybody know where I could get a puppy from or a dog under 1 year old?

The other thing is, I have read stories about 2 male bull breed not getting on together, however, other articles say that they are fine if brought up together from an early age. Any advice on this?... I really didn't want a bitch with the EBT around as he is rather active and I don't intend to get him neutered as I may show him at some point.

Many thanks in advance for responses.

Andrew

Hi and welcome to Dogsey!

There are lots of Staffys of all sizes and staffy crosses in rescue remedies (check their threads) I bet one of them would be just the ticket. Or check out your local rescue center. Bull breeds are unfortunately among the most common rescue dogs at the moment and are difficult to rehome. Lots of them are young, under a year old and an older pup is much more likely to be able to take the EBT play straight away than a little puppy

Generally the advice is to get one of each. a boy and a girl as they are less likely to fight, but in same sex pairs, two boys can usually get along fine as long as they are neutered and socialised from an early age.

Good luck in your search

Not sure about Irish Staffs, but an AmStaff over her (US) is often dual registered with the UKC as a APBT. (Pitbull) which are illegal in your country.

Same here... If the American Staffy is not registered/papered they be regarded as a pitbull, which are illegal...

My neighbour's got one, beautiful dog, and I'm certainly not going to dub them in...

Welcome Andrew

I can think of 3 problems with your suggestions:

1) It is a bad idea getting a puppy when you already have a puppy. You already say your existing pup is hard work, you will risk tipping things over the edge by getting another.
You would be better off waiting until you pup is an adult and gone thru all the stages and training required - you have only just started, and you dont know all you are going to get with your EBT yet, such as the issues regarding the adolescent stage between 9 months and 2 years.
Why do you want a second pup? Is it to kep you first pup company? a pet for your dog, if you like?
If so, that would work the other way - if your pup is getting bored, a second pup wont solve this, you will just have two bored pups with double the trouble.

2) Two Bullys of the same sex arent advised. They would be fine when young, but they can change toward each other when they hit adolescence - teenage years - when hormones occur.

3) There arent really reputable KC registered breeders for Am staffs and irish staffs, as they arent a recognised breed in the UK. Quite often, they are bred by byb's or puppy farsm, and the terms Am staff and irish staff are psyduedonyms for pit bull.
Pit bull types (that is anything that 'resembles' a pit bull) are illegal under section 1 of the DDA in the UK.
You mentioned the long leggedness of Am/Irish - this is one of the main features that police look for legal identification of pit bull type.
Therefore, once your dog reaches around 9 months of age, it could be seized by police anbd potentially put to sleep.
Wrong, but true.

If you are still determined to get a second dog, and if it has to be a staffy type, you would be better off going to a rescue ventre for female around 3 years and above, that has a known good history with other dogs, and the dogs can meet a couple of times before you commit.
Personally, i wouldnt get another dog yet, or widen your breed choice.

He will be up to 90llb?

The KC standard is 13-17 kgs (28-38 lbs) Dogs; bitches 11-15.4 kg! That would be over double the ideal weight. Are you sure this is correct?:?

I agree with Krusewalkers good advice. If I were you I would wait until your pup is older and more mature before contemplating getting another dog. Sounds like you have your work cut out as it is lol

I'm not overly bothered about the size issue, there is no size quoted in the UK Kennel Club for breed standard.

(English) Bull Terriers sizes are typically as follows:

Height: 20 - 24"
Weight: 45 lbs - 80 lbs

It is not unheard of for some really big Bullies to reach over 100lb!

Maybe you have looked at stats for miniture bull terriers (24 - 33lbs) of Staffies (25 - 38lb)

I have given up on the idea of another dog for now anyway as he is proving a real handful, more so by the day!

tbh - i think this is a very good move, dogs like this wont reach maturity til about 2 or 3 and really you want to let them get to this stage before introducing another dog.

piccies please !!!

Now that's what I get for speed-reading! I mis-read that you had a Staffie, oops Sorry Andrew! (that's what you get for trying to type fast because you have to go & prepare tea lol!!! )

Glad about it though - I was thinking hells-teeth, he's going to have the fattest Staffie on earth if it ends up this big

Agreed

I was interested to know what the differences were, so a couple of years ago I did a little research.

From what I've been able to find out about both breeds, over 100 years ago the AKC in America originally refused to register Pit Pulls because of the fighting-dog reputation.

So, another organisation started up in 1898, the United Kennel Club (UKC) which initially was solely for owners of Pit Bulls to have a registration body.

By the 1930's the AKC decided to compromise, and decided to register a "new" breed, the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Which was, in fact, the Pit Bull... but emphasis was placed upon breeding for temperament and to move away from the fighting element.

Nowadays the UKC is a very large body, but what often happens is that Pit Bulls registered with them may be dual-registered with AKC as American Staffs.

When it became illegal to own Pit Bulls here in the UK, some were imported as Am.Staffs. The owner of a shop near where I lived in East London in the early 1990s had one - and proudly showed me the AKC registered pedigree. But to all intents and purposes it was *identical* to a Pit Bull, and he later confessed to me that it was a PBT but that was the only way he could get one. After being threatened almost on a monthly basis with masked men bearing shotguns, baseball bats etc. he felt he needed a deterrent.

The south of Ireland (Eire) has no laws regarding PBTs, which means they are free to import PBTs from anywhere in the world. But they have found a ready market for their dogs in the UK and Northern Ireland (where the dogs are illegal), which is why you will see them advertised as "Irish" Staffies.

Irish they aren't... except for country of birth: their pedigrees will most likely be UKC and/or an Irish registration body. Another catchphrase used to advertise them is "Rednose" staffies. There is free and legal passage of dogs (of any breed) between the Irish Republic (Eire/southern Ireland) and the UK (including Northern Ireland) and it's therefore difficult to police.

References:
Dogs - Desmond Morris (2001)
Why Does My Dog Act That Way? - Dr Stanley Coren (2006)

One thing i can say[cant comment on the isbt],but the amstaff is enough dog to handle any other dogs rough housing,they are hardy tuff animals.Although many have been bred to lack the da of there father breed the apbt,they still can be quite a handful around another dog,especialy a bully,and no longer game or game bred they still will fight when given the opportunity.
i Own two male apbts and they do squabble occasionally but if well versed in how to defuse a situation you should have little problems.of course many different factors decide how the dogs will get along so select for what ever your looking for in temperament first off,then set a rigid basic obedience foundation and things will run smother.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! irish staffordshire bull terrier is not another name given to the american pit bull terrier, it is a tall, lean, athletic version of th standard staffy, bread in ireland in the 80s and 90s as a working/trial/farming version of the standard. bread for purpose NOT to kc standards, yes some people call there dogs irish staffys so theyre not confiscated and destroyed but not all. flynn strain and dublin red strain are lovely tall staffys that originated in ireland, hence irish staffy!!!!

asbt are pitbull more or less, look at pics side by side and you wont tell the difference. illegal in the uk.

walk your dog first thing in the morning and again at tea time and put him in a fenced garden while ur at work with safe toys and a few treats hidden here and there and he wont be bored.

if you just fancy having 2 dogs may i suggest the olde tyme english bulldogge, a friend of mine has one as well as an ebt and they get along like a house on fire. they are both castrated and his ebt was 3 years old before he got the 18 month old bulldogge from a rescue center. they are what the english bulldog used to be 50 years ago, bout the same size as an ebt but a little calmer just type it into google images there lovely dogs

RIP Keithcampos, keith lost his life last month. He'll be missed.