What other wolf crosses have their been Discussions

QUOTE=Borderdawn;1724379]I agree it annoys me too!

As a breed or as a crossbreed, Ive boarded both? Oh and there were a fair few at the NI show I went to.

I see, lots of experience then :?

Research? All on the net if you know where to look, thing is they shut the door if you mention the UK, the breeders on the continent I mean.

I dont think there is any Utonagan breeders outwith the UK?? Pointing out again how you generalise.."these wolfalike breeders"

Show me where I said "all" breeders, there are a few I have much respect for, you just choose which bits to read.

Get off? See above point! Proof of "all" please.

Well if you do not mean all please refrain from forming opinions regarding those of us who are ethical, because wour interest lies in wolfalikes.

I have NO issues with new breeds, show me where I said I have please, again you look but you do not see. I have a problem with crossbreeding.

Well that in itself is a contradiction as in order to make a new breed you would have to cross breed would you not?

22yrs in breeding, showing and working dogs, as well as 7yrs rescue and 6yrs assessing dogs for the Police, Army and Prison service, yourself?

28 years in Breeding, welfare, showing, rehabilitation and now grooming also, as well as being heavily involved in the creation of an exciting new breed.

Boarding some, visiting shows, met a few "wolfdog crosses" at a show too. Speaking to passionate breeders in France, Germany and other European Countries, Yourself?

Yes Ive met a good few other breeds too, , I also used to show a lot and have met loads of breeds at shows, but lets face it that really isnt experience of a breed now is it??
I rehabbed an Akita, a Rottie, a Border Collie to name a few that doesnt ,make me wholly experienced in the breed only that individual dog!


Your research is flawed obviously, you only need read about the truth and what was held back dont you, I need say no more on that do I?

I can assure you there is no flaw in my research, I have read diseccted and read again everything there is to read on my breed the Ute. I do not feel the need to research other breeds, really dont have the time.


You asked for a comparison, did you forget? There is no comparison species wise, breed character yes, but you failed to mention that didnt you.

Really patronising arent we?



Did you read what you posted? I havent bred a litter of my own, but have whelped and reared several breeds and manny litters over the last 22yrs. namely (if it helps you) Labradors, Dobermanns, Border Terriers, yourself?

why the comment "if it helps you " my goodness you really are a peice of work..
I have been involved in breeding for 28 years as I stated above and as I spent the first half of my life in rescues have recently taken my first litter of Utes from my own girl, so you have no chance accusing me of puppy farming or otherwise... shame eh??



Are we talking hip scores here? no "untruths" in that my friend, have you seen a copy of the BVA cert? I have, if you look you will see it on here too.

NO untruths??? sorry dont get that comment, I never once said anything was true or not, I did however comment at how unprofessional such an important issue as health was dealt with .. the normal sadly by these vultures who just like a good slagging match!, I really dont know why you cant just say it as it is??, the "hip scores" as you put it have nothing to do with Utes, nor me or every other breeder except the one you are refferring too....as I stated previously, I am not happy at you generalising all wolf a likes with wolf dogs, you assume by that comment that I because I own and bred Utes think the practises of a breeder in a completely different breed from me is something I condone??? as I said I am an ethical breeder as are most Wolf a like breeders., for your information if you research better there has been a stud advertised for years on the internet from that very same person with a high hip score and if you research very carefully and take note of who commented on it....you will see it was me!!

Totally agree with you...
A dogs a dog and a wolfs a wolf as far as Im concerned

Who said anything about judging? I was just curious to know how you can be so vociferous about what in your opinion are huge amounts of money spent by people purchasing crossbreeds, when exactly the same thing is happening ... but even more expensive ... with the Bengal. I don't have a problem with this actually, I just wondered what your opinion was.

I am not a catty person (ha ha !), but from what I have read they sound delightful and I can well understand the attraction. It is a shame that some people cannot do the same with wolf crosses, isn't it.

Well done for rescuing this kitty though.

I disagree Egar. Neither Saarloos or CWDs were bred to look like wolves, and nothing else. They were bred to be what they are, wolf crosses.

Saarloos was very careful when he created his wonderful breed, and certainly until his death the gene pool was closed and tightly controlled.

As far as the Czechies are concerned, I know the breed reasonably well and have met many, and I would say they act more wolf than they do dog. It is true that through careful breeding they have managed to breed out the more obvious wolfey traits such as aloofness and wariness though. I have never met a Saarloos, but I am told that they are more aloof and wary of humans until they know you, and are generally more wolfey in behaviour, which attracts me towards them. I hope soon to be able to take on another dog, and it will definitely be a wolf cross of some type.

hi gnasher
as much as i value your oppinion i will have to disagree with you about the czech:? they were bred to look wolfie and have been bred to retain that look,but they are a working dog,the czech ecxels in many a discipline

Im grasping at nothing nikki, would you like me to point you to all the lies you told about your own dog? This forum and other forums? Likewise the names you called people on here for pointing this out to you? Just give me a shout and Ill refresh your memory of "not" telling lies, I have no time nor patience for it, sorry.

The Pointer yes, was that the rescue?

Yes, thank you.

Research? All on the net if you know where to look, thing is they shut the door if you mention the UK, the breeders on the continent I mean.

Oh deary me I thought as you mentioned the Wolfdog crosses we were talking about all of them, silly me!

Show me where I said "all" breeders, there are a few I have much respect for, you just choose which bits to read.

Get off? See above point! Proof of "all" please.

Thats hysterical, you just can now see you were wrong and I did NOT say all, go on, admit it!

I have NO issues with new breeds, show me where I said I have please, again you look but you do not see. I have a problem with crossbreeding.

Oh yes, NI, BI, Wolf Hybrid, UTE, Brit Wolf Dog, any more? Oh yes sorry, Chimayo Inuits, Inuits etc... all those new doggies, were we talking one breed or many many breeds within a "type" Go look at the Plummer Terrier if you want to see how a breed SHOULD be created.

22yrs in breeding, showing and working dogs, as well as 7yrs rescue and 6yrs assessing dogs for the Police, Army and Prison service, yourself?

Oh you want all experience, you said breeding and showing, can we count working trials, obedience, clipping, hand stripping and microchipping? Silly isnt it!!!! Which exciting breed are you speaking of?

Boarding some, visiting shows, met a few "wolfdog crosses" at a show too. Speaking to passionate breeders in France, Germany and other European Countries, Yourself?

I think you need to speak to those breeders, they will give you insight, very interesting it is.

Your research is flawed obviously, you only need read about the truth and what was held back dont you, I need say no more on that do I?

Is the Ute a recognised breed then? Sorry I cant find evidence of it, could you direct me to it please.


You asked for a comparison, did you forget? There is no comparison species wise, breed character yes, but you failed to mention that didnt you.

Likewise....



Did you read what you posted? I havent bred a litter of my own, but have whelped and reared several breeds and manny litters over the last 22yrs. namely (if it helps you) Labradors, Dobermanns, Border Terriers, yourself?

I was giving you the breeds to help you, saves you asking of course. Are we doing rescue too? Poo forgot that, yes do a bit now and again, co -ordinated Mid Lab rescue for 7yrs, took other breeds too, is this scoring brownie points? I could say I have owned dogs all my life, but of course as a baby they werent mine were they? I could say I have been involved in rescue for 20yrs as most of mine up untill 15yrs ago were rescues, but that would be childish wouldnt it?



Are we talking hip scores here? no "untruths" in that my friend, have you seen a copy of the BVA cert? I have, if you look you will see it on here too.

NO untruths??? sorry dont get that comment, I never once said anything was true or not, I did however comment at how unprofessional such an important issue as health was dealt with .. the normal sadly by these vultures who just like a good slagging match!, I really dont know why you cant just say it as it is??, the "hip scores" as you put it have nothing to do with Utes, nor me or every other breeder except the one you are refferring too....as I stated previously, I am not happy at you generalising all wolf a likes with wolf dogs, you assume by that comment that I because I own and bred Utes think the practises of a breeder in a completely different breed from me is something I condone??? as I said I am an ethical breeder as are most Wolf a like breeders., for your information if you research better there has been a stud advertised for years on the internet from that very same person with a high hip score and if you research very carefully and take note of who commented on it....you will see it was me!![/QUOTE]

Thats the BEST one!!!

Any more?

you are such a clown, not even going to bother carrying on this conversation, I am sure through reading your replies everyone can see exactly how experienced, how up yourself and how clueless you really are.

I am involved in the creation of the British Utonagan, the ultimate goal to create a wolf look a like that is a family pet and has no wolf content in it, we have all our records, health stipulations, geneticists, vets and some KC folks on board, the likes of you are really quite irrelevant to this but I do hope that some people will see you as the thorn in our side, you are a snob out and out.... its really sad to read the way you dismiss other peoples opinions and ambitions.....

It really just shows what kind of person you are...

You see if you actually new what our association was trying to do you would realise that you in the main agree with it....but as I said before your head is too far up your own **s to realise this

Have you ever considered that you and other wolf type dog owners/breeders are snobbish about your particular dogs? Because that is the impression that many of you give!
Becky

Oh its the "British Utonagan" is it. Clown signing out on yet another name for this "type" of dog!

There's also T.I.D.A's new one. Timber dog. How many names or groups is there now?

With each argument brings a new one.

I've lost track to be honest.

Personally I dont feel most wolfalike owners are snobby at all, more like put on the defensive by all of these type of patronising know it all comments....How many terriers are there in the world????? why are there 3 sizes of poodle??? oh sorry 4 if you count tea-cup??? the lists go on...


Im sure we could disagree on every point ever made.. the brass tacks of it all are this is the breed I love and am involved in, this is the breed that I have decided to spend my time with, why is it such a concern to those of you who are nothing whatsoever to do with it???

I feel that there should be a breed that has the look people are obviously looking for but IS a DOG and CAN be promoted as a family pet.... I would have thought most of you would have agreed with that..

Hi alady??
I don't think anybody here is against the wolf lookalike dogs (whatever type they fall into)
The problem is with the breeders of them, good one's are few and far between, you must have noticed that yourself being involved with them for so long as you have been?

I think some are snobby because of the implied comments about how 'special' and 'unique' these dogs are, that is where the snob element comes in. There are 3 sizes of poodle because they were bred for different things. The teacup isn't a size it's a marketing ploy by irresponsible breeders, on the continent there are 4 sizes recognised. The same with dachshunds different sizes for different jobs.

No dog should ever be promoted as a family pet as in the wrong hands any breed can be a liability. All that should be done is to promote the specific traits of any particular breed and from reading some of the issues people have with these types of dog promotingn them as a good family pet is just plain irresponsible.
Becky

Liz, you point out how many breeders there are of wolfalike NOT wolfdog ... and then add how many have actually been bad breeders, I would say the percent pretty small in comparison to a lot of pedigrees would you not...that doesnt mean I condone it,,,just pointing out that this happens and is certainly not breed specific. Personally all the breeders I know are very ethical, all abide by KC code of ethics, I know a lot of what has been said is about other breeds but again Mahooli especially feels the need to lump us in together as you have just done...this is my point entirely, all different breeds, one or two bad breeding practises and ideas and we all get the patronising attitude from certain people, and I frankly have listened to enough of it!!

Mahooli, I personally abore the idea of tea cups, BUT I most certainly do not class you as the same as their breeders as you should not class me the same nor other owners, your comment generalised us all as Nauseous (sp)

I wish you all would give a constructive critisism, or a healthy debate as that I would enjoy, I can see most points that are raised are very valid and I too can see why people "dont get it" as I used to be one of them, but I like to keep an open mind, and most certainly do not accuse peopl of being wrong just because I dont agree with them, why cant you all do the same.

Are most dogs not classed now as family pets.... I would say (rough guess) that most working dog breeds are now most certainly not bred to work as we hardly use them all now, some of them dont breed and some dont show.....so what is the appeal...oh thats right "good family pet"...maybe I should word it better:

The British Ute is a large breed, have the same problems as all large breeds if not trained properly, BUT their overall temperament IS great with kids, good family pet (meaning they can fit in with most family lifestyles) ie long walks, or not, activities such as obedience, agility, rigging, showing, general all rounder, keep mice away We do however have applications for pups, and it is pretty obvious who is and who isnt suited to the dogs (as would be any large breed)...That doesnt make the dogs superior to any other except to the people who love them as would be the same in any breed also....

You would do better waiting until you know a persons attitudes before tarring them all with the same brush that YOU have decided fits all of us (again you are generalising!)

I wasn't implying that the dogs were nauseating but the fact about the constant referral by their owners/breeders that their dogs were so different to anything else and therefore special and unique. I don't see them as any more special or unique to any other breed of dog.

No breed of dog should be promoted as being a good family pet as I've said before, because in the wrong hands they wont be. Hence ONLY the specific traits of any given breed should be highlighted. If, in the main, they are good natured or easily trained then that is what should be promoted not that they will make a fantastic pet or are good with children!

Becky

THat is my point though, they are promoted as rather than being "wolf dog" meaning recent input of Wolf, which as far as I am concerned means the instincts can outway the domesticity, wolfalike means bred from domestic breeds so the instincts are as strong as any domestic dog breed.

When promoting shall we say (dont like the word) our dogs we need to clarify the difference and hope to sway people towards the domestic dog with the look rather than the wolfdogs or any conotations of it (no offence meant to any wolf dog owners). When saying a good family pet its because they are, as you would also say of retreivers, and a whole aray of breeds, but yes I do agree that in the wrong hands all dogs can go bad, this is the breeders job to ensure they dont, it would take a lot to break the temperament of a Ute.

I can see your point entirely on both issues, but have a slightly different view. Personally if I am asked what my own dogs are like with kids, "better than any breed I have ever had or worked with" and I say that not because I am being a snob but as it is my experience and is true. We always ask if there are kids in the family when people apply for pups and always insist that dogs are never left unattended with children....as would any ethical breeder....so really we are singing from the same hymn book

Yes that is correct, i said 'wolf lookalike' not wolfdog. Are you suggesting the Ute is not a 'type' of dog that falls into that catagory?
No i would not say that in comparison to pedigree dogs there are less bad breeders of wolflookalikes than there are of pedigree's. You would have to show me some factual statistics of that.
I think that covers the part of your post where you refer to me but i will be happy to answer any of the rest of it if you point out which section you'd like me to comment on as i quite enjoy a good debate myself

Alady.
Can I ask when the name "British Utonagan" was adopted as I cant seem to find any reference to it. All I can find is the British Utonagan Association, which of course is a club. Your help appreciated.