What other wolf crosses have their been Discussions

Why roll your eyes and sigh? I would take it as a huge compliment !! The dog in your avatar is absolutely gorgeous! Many years ago we met up with a really lovely lady who has a huge pack of sibes and races them - she fell in love with Hal, thought he was absolutely gorgeous and was particularly impressed that, despite the fact and that time he was our only dog, we could let him off the lead without him legging it.

Sorry to quote all this---I can't sort the multi bit out!

We have a wolf dog cross I know of locally, it may well be a relative of one of yours.It was advertised on the net as one of two that were left as older pups. I will be interested to know how this one develops. It lives with two toddlers. I have no problem with the two toddlers but a big problem with how much time can be given to any dog when there are two demanding small people around. Boredom is not good for any dog and had I been the breeder I would have said no to that home. Having said that if I ever bred I'd say no to most homes probably!

If I had been the breeder of your dogs I would have wanted to at least come to your house before homing a second dog with you----for all I know the breeder did come. Its very hard with people as you can think the dog will have a great home and be very wrong and think it will not be a great home and the dog can be loved and cared for better than you would----talking rescues generally here.

I think if the breeders go on being careless---and I do think the local one was (I know what happened to other of her animals). Then they will inevitably end up in rescue. Come back to me in 5 years time and we'll see. 3 years ago the NI breeders were saying the same.

The SE thing I know nothing about-----my admiration for the man was huge. He came here to see our feral dog 6 years ago. He has gone down in my estimation by getting involved with people who seem to wish to exploit him one way or another, but IMO his knowledge of dog group behaviour is second to none. His explainations of the behaviour in groups of dogs is fantastic.

Just my take on it.

rune

Chuffed with myself for what?? I see you have climbed down off your high horse..(got a couple of them too..well one is high the other isn't )



Which bits do you disagree with about me?? the dog lover bit..yeah you seem to keep repeating that..like saying it over and over will make it true Uhhh it won't..I am not a dog lover but waited 18 years to get a malamute?? I am not a dog lover but live with 2 malamutes..bought a van to carry them in..bought a bigger caravan to take them on hols with us..only go on holiday in the UK so they can come with us, work nights so they won't be left on their own..I could go on and on..but you must be right..I am not a dog lover..

The tone and content of the posts were the truth..which I always tell..I never candy coat anything..sorry..no wishy washy molly coddling from me..I really don't care to change your opinion of me..I won't lose sleep over it.[/QUOTE]

Louise,

As your arent bothered about my opinion of you there is absolutely no need to explain.

"the truth"
ok

You have accused me of calling myself an "expert"- I have never done this Louise so clearly its a lie-what else is it? Find a post where I said I was an expert.

Im sure youl spend the rest of the afternoon trawling through various websites as is your want. You wont find it and you know it.

Like I said my opinion of you hasnt changed- I have no wish to stoop to your level and trade insults. You are what you are.

Goodbye Louise

Ok Rune,

Some fair points there. The bottom line, regarding my own dogs, is things have worked out very well now. As I said I dont wish to discuss my own dogs in public though as I am aware of where it ends up due to certain elements.

Dont know which dogs you are talking about. Have no idea if theyre related.

SE probably has some respect for certain breeders. Again with the knowledge of having actually met them and formed an opinion.

My point still stands about asking people with the breeds their experiences. You may feel 8 months experience is of no value. in that case why not speak to people who have adult dogs? I still feel, maybe not rightly, there is an element of prejudice here with you. Nobody is saying you have to agree with them but if I was in your position I would like to meet the dogs, people and breeders then form an opinion-positive or negative.

I can see the point that there is no guarantee these dogs will end up back with the breeder and not in rescue. The will and evidence is there though that breeders take the dogs back if there are problems-surely this, at least, must be commended?

You know I really cant be bothered with all the schoolyard bickering that seems to surround our dogs, generally caused by misinformed, unexperienced, nothing to do with it know it alls

Why Mahooli do you find people with wolf look alike dogs nauseating ?? Because they know more than you, Border Dawn and Louise about their chosen breed???

Why is it that you who owns poodles attempted to write a breed standard for Wolf alikes, when we are more than capable of managing ourselves???, why Borderdawn do you insist on claiming to be so very informed on breeds you quite obviously know very little about?? God sake you breed Border terriers, wheres the comparison??, why Louise do you seem to think you kow more than any other dog owner in the planet??

The numbers of Ute and NI owner are on the rise, and the reason most of us do not post is the likes of you 3 put most grown ups off getting involved.

I have watched dogsey for 3 years now and as far as I can see you are (the named few above and a few others) self appointed experts in a field you obviously have no clue about All you seem to do is generalise everyone, put down ALL the breeds, All the breeders, and now have the audacity to accuse ALL owners of having some sort of superiority complex?? The only superiority complexes I can see is the ones that you 3 especially seem to have? WHY?

This thread was supposed to be about Wolf crosses.... not Wolf Dogs or wolfalikes.... so why again have you all brought the tone down to your gutter level yet again. Yes there are a lot of bad practises and ideas going on right now, and I have the same opinion about those as most ethical breeders do, but as well as this there are a lot of owners breeders and lovers of NIs and Utes, who just to clarify to those of you who obviously dont understand as much as you purpose to are completely different they are wolf a like DOGS not WOLF DOGS or WOlf HYBRIDS, or wolf crosses...they are breeds, as yet unrecognised by the KC being developed in your country with NO wolf content in them (before you start the boring debate.... NO I dont see all the wolfs and crosses hiding in barns being any more relevant to what we are doing know than any other rumour or gossip created for sensationalism!) I am talking of the here and now... we are using domestic dog breeds to create the look, health and temperament that we like in a dog. Why you all seem to have such a hard time accepting this I dont know.

There are very many experienced dog owners and breeders who have came into the creation of new breeds because they can see the whys and wherefores and they have decided that is the breed for them....what the HELL has that to do with all of you?? I would never have a border, and especially not a poodle...infact my war cry is "lifes too short to do poodles" but I most certainley would not go on a poodle thread nor a Border thread and start trying to profess that I knew more than the owners what is that all about??!! I wouldnt condemn you for liking a breed that I think is a waste of space, nor would I go in saying that all your lovely stories about your pets made me Nausious!! :-(

Its high time you lot got your heads out your butts and stopped acting oh so superior, because to those of us who do know what we are talking about you are the laughing stock....Im sure your campaign to stop knew owners hasnt a hope in hell because anyone with half a clue can see you all for who you are.... interfering, pretentious nobodies....why dont you tootle off and sort your own breeds out if ours offend you all so much and stay off wolfalike/wolfDog/whatever threads, instead of being the constant pain in all of our butts

Disregarding all the other waffle Ill address the highlighted part for you.

Which "bits" dont I know about and Ill put your mind at ease? (waiting for the "you dont own one "rubbish..!!)

Did you mention "informed?" Let me tell you one small comparison, they are both types of DOG!!!! Do you think being the same species just might drop them into a similar category of comparison? Oh and I havent bred Border Terriers either

Please feel free to join in ANY threads on Dogsey, not just the ones about this type of dog, might benefit more people that way. I refer you to the CW forum on JK if you'd like to see another "comparison" of dogsey and Wolfy lookalike breeders, I think you will find things were a tad more extreme there, but of course thats ok isnt it?!!

Firstly, I do not think that anyone or any opinion differing from yours is waffle....It is well deserved annoyance

I would like to know exactly what experience you have with these dogs, The Utonagan especially?

I would like to know why you are supposedly doing research into breeds that you seem to hate the conception of?

I would like to know why you insist on classing ALL breeders the same...

also where you get off accusing ALL wolfalike breeders as unethical?

Why do you have a problem with people enjoying their own dogs and breeding a new breed?

What experience do you have in breeding, showing, activities?

What experience do you have of Utonagan, Northern Inuit, Sarloos, CWD, Hybrids and wolves??

And most importantly why do you think that you know more than those of us who own and live with these dogs, do our own research, and keep our own records??

As for your comment re Borders are DOGS!! So are Utes...but I can assure you the temperament is completely different as is the maintenance...as is Spaniels, collies, mals etc etc hence why we have so many different breeds and so many different owners.... you choose a DOG to suit you and what you want from a pet...they are all DOGS but are all very different. They all have different needs, they all have different fortes. You wouldnt see Borders pulling a rig would you??

Each breed is different thats why people seek the knowledge of breed specialists, even vets do, each breed has different characteristics, different needs, each breed has different instincts, terriers hunt, collies herd etc etc.... I thought you would have known all that

Have you ever bred dogs??

As for you kind invitation to join other threads? I have and didnt realise I needed your personal invitation.

As for CW thats old news is it not and yet again another farce regarding important health info being diluted by handbags at dawn bitching instead of proper documentation being supplied to the relevant breed advisors to pass on to their breeders....doesnt impress me much at all...my concern is the dogs and the breed as a whole NOT people who relish in shooting people down.

If you think I talk "waffle" you should do well reading back your own posts

Woo hoo I know everything so it's fine just ask me and I can tell you. Of course the part where I said this will be found on the same bit where I called jon an expert. Yeah nowhere. As for banjo lol well done

I agree it annoys me too!

As a breed or as a crossbreed, Ive boarded both? Oh and there were a fair few at the NI show I went to.

Research? All on the net if you know where to look, thing is they shut the door if you mention the UK, the breeders on the continent I mean.

Show me where I said "all" breeders, there are a few I have much respect for, you just choose which bits to read.

Get off? See above point! Proof of "all" please.

I have NO issues with new breeds, show me where I said I have please, again you look but you do not see. I have a problem with crossbreeding.

22yrs in breeding, showing and working dogs, as well as 7yrs rescue and 6yrs assessing dogs for the Police, Army and Prison service, yourself?

Boarding some, visiting shows, met a few "wolfdog crosses" at a show too. Speaking to passionate breeders in France, Germany and other European Countries, Yourself?

Your research is flawed obviously, you only need read about the truth and what was held back dont you, I need say no more on that do I?

You asked for a comparison, did you forget? There is no comparison species wise, breed character yes, but you failed to mention that didnt you.

Really, amazing!!!

Did you read what you posted? I havent bred a litter of my own, but have whelped and reared several breeds and manny litters over the last 22yrs. namely (if it helps you) Labradors, Dobermanns, Border Terriers, yourself?

You dont, keep up the good work!

Are we talking hip scores here? no "untruths" in that my friend, have you seen a copy of the BVA cert? I have, if you look you will see it on here too.

As I mentioned, you have repeated yourself at least twice in this post alone, so pot and kettle come to mind....!!

I have just looked and found a CWD x inuit bitch for sale as a rescue.

rune

Rune : very interesting point you make about the toddlers - I personally would not have a wolf cross with young children for exactly the same reason you state - my daughter was 10 when we got Hal.

Dawn : hang on a minute here, you say the "you don't own one" accusation is rubbish, but this actually is a good point. I offered you the chance to meet up with me and Hal, and you refused. To be fair, you cannot criticise something IMO that you have no knowledge of.

It would be akin to me making broad unfavourable comments about border terriers - I know little about the breed (although it has to be said that from the one I know particularly well, and those I know to a lesser extent, I love'em and want one, therefore I feel "superior" to you in that I have more experience of BT's than you do of wolf crosses!).

It seems to me that every man and his dog join in the "let's bash wolf dogs" debate - fine, I don't have a problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is that NONE of you have ever owned one !! You can't bash what you have no experience of.

"As a breed or as a crossbreed, Ive boarded both? Oh and there were a fair few at the NI show I went to."

Dawn ... this is truly an AMAZING amount of experience ... not.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I do remember a certain person giving me a hard time a while back because over the 41 years that I have owned dogs, I had never lived with more than 2 dogs at any one time. Because of this "limited" experience I have had with dogs, I was deemed unfit to comment apparently on the pack instinct of all dogs.

You cant claim "invention" now Sutty its MINE!!!

Ill say one more time Nikki, I dont remember you inviting me to meet Hal and he would be no different to me than meeting any other dog of that type, and as I said I have met a few. I can critisze all I like, and its the breeders ethics I am critisizing NOT the dogs, never has been!

Your last paragraph, you may "know" a Border Terrier and class that as experience, you must then acknowledge that as I board Utes, Ni's and BI's on a regular basis I have "exerience" of them, correct? Combined, you "could" say I have "lived with them" for months on end, if you want a different view, adding up the weeks they stay with me.

You have no experience with Saarloos or CsV either do you? Im sorry but you'll have to forgive me for not going into the whole Hal thing again with you as I cannot believe anything you say about him based on all the lies you told on several forums at the time which are still there now.

I would hope Nikki, that boarding a few would be appropriate as as a very small number in existance many more would indicate many more being bred wouldnt it, and of course that would NOT be good would it? I dont think I had anything to do with you owning just 2 dogs did I? So what? I have 4 here now, have owned 5 at a time, again, so what? Not seeing your logic at all, sorry.

Thats very sad.:-(

Ive just found a CWD x GSD for sale!

Selective breeding then

Must be doubling up on the wolf content

I have a bad memory too, but this I do remember, and your rather rude reply ! No worries, it was your loss, not mine.

I thought I had explained to you how I DO NOT CONSIDER my knowledge of one Border Terrier to be experience ! I have said, repeatedly, that I would never comment on BT's because I have no meaningful experience of them. Just like you have no meaningful experience of wolf crosses, and yet to purport to be such an expert of them. And why on earth bring up Hal? What has he got to do with my lack of experience of Border Terriers? Grasping at straws here aren't we a bit?

As a legal secretary, I find that it is something that solicitors often do when cornered and found to be in the wrong ... they will either completely ignore the point altogether, or to go off on a sidetrack of a previous grievance ... your grievance being that I tell lies. Not true ... had you taken up my invitation to meet Hal, you would know so.

And actually I have more experience of CWD's that you do of any type of wolf cross. I concede to having no experience whatsoever of a Saarloos, I have never met one, although I hope to put that to rights very soon.

Thank you Dawn, the point I made at the time was exactly your's ... so what? I have lived and owned dogs for 41 years, bred two litters of GSPs, but never owned several dogs at a time. Because of this, I was deemed somehow unworthy of commenting on the pack instincts of dogs! I am going off thread here, so forget it, but I do remember you being one of the dissenters!

You've lost me on your first point, why would I not want more wolf crosses to be bred, now that they are legal? In the right hands, with experienced people who have the right level of robustness to handle a challenging breed and the right lifestyle, who can commit 101% to their animal/s, I think they make superb pets. The joy that Hal gave me, now Tai, is the greatest I have ever known with any of my past dogs, even my beloved bloodhound and german shorthaired pointer.

Not selective breeding at all - the CWD was created by crossing GSD with carpathian wolf.