What other wolf crosses have their been Discussions

Borderdawn,

What "wolfy type" dogs have you actually met? Dates, breeds and names please-not fanciful stories.

Ok so heres how I see it:

If anyone on Dogsey would like to actually look through BDs previous posts you will see that initially she was very supportive of the breeders. Clearly, she has every right to change her mind for whatever reasons she cares to give.

BD- when you began your venomous tirade the breeders were your target (according to you none of whom you have met). You explained it wasnt the owners or the dogs.

You then went on to describe the owners as "macho", "stupid", "Idiotic", "cult members" etc etc etc. You have categorized them ALL as wolfy type people without meeting any of them as far as I can see. You say its just "some" of the owners- as far as I can see almost every owner who has entered this website has been subjected to your and certain others insults.

You say "its not the dogs". First you express concern over "wolf" type behaviours then in this thread you explain there are no wolf type behaviours in these animals and they are all displaying normal dog behaviours. Which is it?

You see Borderdawn I could sort of understand and accept your tirade if it was just the breeders. I dont agree but I could understand. However you seem to single out the owners and the dogs aswell. That, and the above reasons, are why the construct of your argument, in general, is laughable.

Also theres the small matter of you never having met any of these people? Why the venom?

My dogs are well looked after, so I presume are Gnashers, Banjis and many others. So why the venom?

These dogs require a great deal of sensitivity and patience- not machismo. Im sorry you have come to this conclusion over the owners- again from the standpoint of never meeting them.

You have never revealed any of your "secret sources". Why, if you have nothing to hide? Its not MI5 Dawn this is a dog-lovers site

You seem to think that the owners are somehow deeply connected with the breeders in some sort of "cult". I visited a kennels, fell in love with the dogs, was satisfied with breeding practise and thats it! Some of us have better things to do.

Batmandy has just acheived qualification with 1 dog in SAR-the other is on the way. Do you have any idea of the commitment, talent and knowledge required to get a dog to this level? Doesnt really fit with a "macho" owner does it dear?

The bottom line is- you cant see past your own venom.

And despite all our little disagreements have I ever criticised your Border Terriers? No- why? because
1) I am better than that.
2) I quite like the ol Borders anyway
3) I dont know enough about them to form a proper opinion

Thankyou Gnasher,

Sorry for your loss again-life moves on with Tai.

Maybe BD was afraid of the big bad wolf?


Thing is Gnasher you and I know we are not part of any "cult". We are all individuals who share a love in owning these dogs-its that simple.

As I have explained, I dont slavishly agree with all of your viewpoints on wolf crosses, GSDs etc. And no doubt you dont agree with all of my points. Itd be a pretty boring world if we did. However, Just because I disagree with you on some points doesnt mean I regard you as "Macho", "Stupid" or "cruel" (like some). That is totally ridiculous!

Also, I guess we may respect each other's opinions a little more as we have both ACTUALLY MET these breeders/establishments etc and have had the joy of owning these dogs. Id love to see the reaction if I dissappeared off to the Border Terrier section and started explaining about how wrong every was about the ol Borders behaviours/looks/breeding/temperament from my own standpoint of ignorance!

quote geezer,
My dogs are well looked after, so I presume are Gnashers, Banjis and many others. So why the venom?

These dogs require a great deal of sensitivity and patience- not machismo. Im sorry you have come to this conclusion over the owners- again from the standpoint of never meeting them.



yes geezer, i was also confused about bds and some others association with these dogs and machoism.
it makes no sense to me whatsoever. these dogs have a very high level of emotional intelligence and need to be treated with sensitivity. requiring patience and total devotion and usually a change in lifestyle, and it is worth everything you put into the breed. what i have got back is, without going into details, lifechanging for me.
i would never go into personal details about myself or my dogs or even the colour of my roses on this forum because you are imediately criticised, and by people who know nothing about you and are very rude about things that are important to you.my spelling and grammer also brought to my attention.
the fact that we take care of our fantastic dogs and got them from concientious breeders makes no difference to people who just appear to be jealous as there can be no other reason.
i have not met anyone yet who has not fallen in love with my dogs.

yes geezer, i was also confused about bds and some others association with these dogs and machoism.
it makes no sense to me whatsoever. these dogs have a very high level of emotional intelligence and need to be treated with sensitivity. requiring patience and total devotion and usually a change in lifestyle, and it is worth everything you put into the breed. what i have got back is, without going into details, lifechanging for me.
i would never go into personal details about myself or my dogs or even the colour of my roses on this forum because you are imediately criticised, and by people who know nothing about you and are very rude about things that are important to you.my spelling and grammer also brought to my attention.
the fact that we take care of our fantastic dogs and got them from concientious breeders makes no difference to people who just appear to be jealous as there can be no other reason.
i have not met anyone yet who has not fallen in love with my dogs.[/QUOTE]

Agree with all youve said there Banji. I sort of think theres a lot of pedigree snobbery going on here aswell.

Prancing around a showring and gearing a dog's life and breeding to that most unnatural and uninstinctual of acts does not impress me. I guess this is my prejudice- I dont think its cruel though and im sure there are plus sides. I can accept its horses for courses without telling people how they should live their and their dog's lives-unlike certain people on this website.

Much of the conventional dog training handbook has gone out of the window for me. Why? Because, after trying it, I too have realised that gentleness and sensitivity almost always works best with these guys. Thats not to say I havent had the odd cross word though

Your last sentence-never a truer word said Of course they are beautiful dogs physically but more often than not its their personalities and demeanor that I think people love. Im sure theyre not for everyone though

Im not "complaining" about the dogs banji. Im saying I find it utterly astounding people would pay extortionate amounts of money for crossbreeds of dubious heritage, and some from a bitch with a hip score of 40 or more, even more so, they dont even "own" the dog!!! These people stand for this!

Cult members? Where did I say that? Do show! While you are at it, show me where I was knocked back, Im still waiting for that too! Thats two things that are "fiction" on YOUR part I think you will find!!

Bottom line, Geezer (Jon isnt it?) I couldnt give a toss which dogs you own, never in a million years, but the crap that leaks from some owners and breeders mouths is just plain pathetic and nothing more. Never in all my life have I heard people talking about dogs in such a manner, especially when they were purchased from puppy farmers who breed and sell excessively.

I asked you a question Jon. What do you think about the responsible (or not) nature of a Csv with a hip score of 40 or more being used for breeding , and not just one or two litters?

errm which breeders are you calling puppy farmers-exactly dear?

You seem a little sensitive about the whole knockback issue BD? It was merely a question? Its almost as if theres some truth in the matter?

I dont know who or what your going on about csvs with hip scores. I dont trust anything you have to say BD for the reasons I have already explained. Also why should I answer ANY of your questions when you have answered NONE of mine. I draw particular attention to your secret sources and conflicts in your "arguments".

If you dont "give a toss" then why are you here at all on this thread? Ill answer that for you as you never answer a question anyway:

You are here to spread venom and vitriol about owners/dogs/breeders you have never met and have little or no knowledge about. You are consumed with hatred. You are lost.

You dont know anything aout the hip scores? There is a copy of the one in question on here! Or maybe you could ask the breeders you trust so much, one bred the dog, then sold it, buyer bred from a couple times, then sold it, new owner bred from it etc.. see a pattern emerging? Thing is all this went on with the knowledge of her hip score and the fact these breeders were spouting about health testing and breeding "better" dogs!!

Re the knockback, didnt seem like a question to me "dear" but you cant back it up anyway, so shall we leave that one unless you can give me your evidence?

Im consumed with hatred? Excellent! Any more?

Do they hip-score the wolves, I wonder?

Borderdawn,

I have already explained to you I am not here to defend breeders- that is a political debate which is endless due to your porkies about "secret sources". Just out of curiosity-do you have a psychic cat with green eyes? Is this your secret source? Will you ever answer any question posed to you in my earlier post dear? Or is your secret source perhaps a uk based timber wolf breeder/ czw breeder? mm sounds reliable.

Also I havent got a clue which breeders you are referring to as puppy farmers? Can you elaborate?

Take the question marks away from the last part of my post and you may have reached some self-realisation.

Now- your venom is of little importance to me now and watching Andy Murray at Wimbledon is. So off you toddle for a conflab with your mates so you can scheme up another tedious thread- or destroy its original goal.

cheery

Oh dear are you becoming deflated? If you think my sources are "porkies" ask the breeder and then subsequent owner of Loupy Lou if she has a hip score of 40 or more, yet with FULL knowledge bred from her, at least 3 litters I think. Responsible 'eh?

Andy isnt doing too well is he? I can multi task!!

Sorry, that was miswording on my part. That is how I read it to mean, my reasons, we are suposed to be disgussing other types of wolf crosses, like wolf x akita. These, are for the most part, random crosses, that go no further than f1 or f2, there is no specific breed like the saarloos or cwd.

This wasn't suposed to be a thread about cwd, swh or gsd, as much as I like hearing about them. But not suprisingly, that is what we've ended up talking about anyway.

well lets change that then
whats the WORST f1 you can think of in looks and/or temprement

without wanting to offend anyone,if certain people would not get involved with these threads,as they have no knowledge of the breeds, then the people asking genuine qs about wolfy breeds might get answers and not just bickering.
as i have said previously this does not happen on this forum regarding any other breed of dog.

I don't know about worst I've seen, but I can imagine quite a few.
Wolf x English bulldog, I just don't think that'd look to good.
Wolf x westy, I can't imagine how that'd work, apart from a big box.

Off to google some, to see what I come up with.

If you feel this way why stoop to the level and respond?

I have never had much opinion on these dogs - I have met a few but they don't really do anything for me....my mother however is quite besotted, hennce my interest.

I'm afraid my opionin was set on reading another thread, during which the owner and breeder of a CsW expressed some awful opinions. Sadly the brush tars both ways.

How do you know we have no knowledge of them? I "met" two at a companion show not too long ago, and although now the Wolfy breeders want to distance themselves from NI's, I visited one of their shows a couple years ago. I also board a few NI's, no sorry one changed into a BI!!!

If you wonder why people argue, you need look no further than the people behind them, thats the people behind the NI, the BI, and now the crossbreeds.

But exactly what you describe (apart possibly from the dubious heritage) people have being doing just this for decades with pedigree breeds

I am sure I remember reading somewhere that hip dysplasia does not occur naturally in wolves ... it is a man-made disfunction caused by too much inbreeding. I may be wrong, but I am sure I read that somewhere.

BD, with the greatest respect "meeting" = virtually no experience at all, neither does visiting a few shows. Boarding a few NI's/BI's is getting you a fraction warmer, but in no way whatsoever comes anywhere close to qualifying you to claim "knowledge".

It would be akin to me commenting in anything but the most superficial way about border terriers. (They are delightful dogs, I would love to own one, but OH does not like small dogs sadly ).