Staffys - nice or nasty? Discussions

oh, Hun, you do seem to have got yourself into a bit of a pickle here.

Yes, I'm afraid two girls is potentially much worse than two males...there is an old saying that goes something like 'males fight for breeding rights, females fight for breathing rights'...what it basically is trying to say is that when two bitches fall out, they take it far more seriously and can fight with the intention of killing.

That's not to say that two bitches can't get on, but usually when they both know where they stand with each other. You may be lucky and get one girl that is happy for the other one to be 'boss', but if not, it could be horrendous.

Coupled with the comments about the nervous father....To be honest, whilst I know many staffies are not good with other dogs, I very rarely hear of one being nervous with humans and this would concern me.

Personally, if it were me, I'd forgo the deposit, walk away and go and consider a rescue instead. But that's just me and I know its much easier to say than to do.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

If it were me I would walk away even if you lose the deposit. Doesn't sound like a great breeder to me, it doesn't sound as if he is the type to worry about health tests and temperements. It could cost you a lot more than the deposit in the future. Good luck whatever you decide.

I would be a little concerned about the "nervous" Sire! I would definitely want to see him and spend a little time with him, in case "nervous" is code for "aggressive"! He probably isn't aggressive but I think with a powerful breed (well any breed really) you really need the pups to come from parents with sound temperaments imo.

I suppose there is the point that if the Breeder were bad, he could just say he doesn't own the Sire and therefore he wouldn't have to show him to you, so probably a big worry over nothing but definitely worth thinking about

It's not just the deposit, I've paid in full! Altho they were incredibly cheap, proving yet again that this probably wasnt the best way to go about getting pups

It's not really just the money issue tho.

1, yes im incredibly stubborn and once i set my heart on something there is nothing that will sway me, as long as they don't end up being harmed in any way

2, I'm not going to have to cope alone and i do love them so already!

3, I'm actually quite concerned for the whole litter now. If the breeder is more concerned about making money from them and was willing to sell me 2 even tho I'm inexperienced (and also he didn't ask me anything about myself or partner, current pets, do i have garden?, etc) then will he just palm them off on anyone? eg, chavs who just want a "hard looking" dog?

I'll be able to judge the situation much better when I go to collect them and see for myself what condition they are being kept in. I may just be overthinking things he's said, or not said, and making it a bigger deal in my head. They could be perfectly well treated but just not registered or something. I hope I'm just being a bit paranoid

Honestly, I would forget about the deposit and walk away. Yes it is money lost for you which is a shame, but the consequences of getting two bitches from this type of breeding could be far greater than the cost of your deposit. You might get lucky and have no problems at all, but you will be taking a big risk if you go through with it. If two adolescent bitches decide they don't like each other there isn't a lot you can do about it. As my grandmother used to say, 'they don't call um' bitches for nothing!'.

I agree with the suggestion of rescue centres. They are over run with Staffies at the moment (pups included). This way you will still be getting the breed you want but won't be contributing to irresponsible breeders pockets. Either that or start researching for responsible breeders.

Hi

With the question still regarding the health testing - that woudl be a concern for me too - If this man hasnt done appropriate health testing for his pups, no matter how in love I would walk away now - You have to consider if you are able to take on a dog who may have problems with health caused by breeding.

He doesnt sound like a good breeder, i would be concerned regarding the stud dog and Tbh i see many badly bred staffies and whilst they are mostly lovely dogs - Is it worth the risk when there are so many fab ones in need of homes as it is. taking on two that may end up with serious health risks or temperament issues is a big committment - can you give that ?

If they are cheap and he is this crap he is a BYB and all you are doing is funding him to breed again by buying these pups.

It may also be worth calling the local Stafford Rescue in your area and asking if they have heard of this man - they may be able to shed other light on the subject too....

I really feel for you but ultimately you do not yet have the puppies and have effectively fallen in love with a photo - you havent physically bonded with them so this is the time to walk away and get a good breeder OR a rescue.

The stud and bitch should be people friendly and happy dogs in the best of health and if he isnt I wouldnt go there !

Well your mind seems to be made up.

As for the pups, hard as it is, buying off breeders like this 'to save the pups' is never a good idea....yes you may well give these pups a better life, but all it does is encourage the guy to breed again. The best way of this kind of person getting the message is when he doesn't make any money....he'll be less tempted to breed again.

Being well treated is one thing, but this person is still irresponsible. He bred from dogs with unstable temperaments (this will likely effect the temperament of your pups in the future) and has done no health testing on the parents. He is also willing to let two bitches from the same litter go which is a major 'no' for all breeds, but especially so for determined breeds like Staffies.

Please don't let your heart rule your head here. I understand that walking away would be extremely difficult, but the short-term upset is surely better than the potential long term one that could occur as a result of this situation.

Do you mind me asking how cheap was cheap and has he given any clarification of health tests?

Can you ask him for it ? and see what his response is?

They're only 150 each, and he hasn't mentioned anything about health tests or injections, but to be fair I didnt ask either. I should have written down all the things I wanted to ask him, which i have now done for the next time i speak to him

oh and he's just text me saying that the price has suddenly gone up! bit weird!

I completely understand everything said above about not encouraging him to breed again if he is a bad owner, altho in all honesty we don't have proof of that yet. If this litter and parents are not being looked after properly then rest assured he WILL be reported, but if i don't have these puppies and he is bad then what will happen to them?

Oh this is all making me very sad

Oh my word, this is sounding more like a scam. I've heard of this before - price goes up, you pay more and then when you turn up all the pups have gone but they won't give you the money back.

I would phone Trading Standards NOW and get some advice.

Sorry but are you saying that you've paid for the pups in full and yet you haven't been to see them at the Breeders home/kennels?????? Or am I getting the wrong idea here?

Also he's now saying the price has gone up! If I were you, I'd run away from this "Breeder" fast as you can! It's not looking very good is it. To be £150 each, I very much doubt any health testing has taken place and from what others are saying, it seems health testing is important for this breed

Still, who knows. I think you need to be asking lots of questions. Good luck

He may not be a bad owner but he is a bad breeder, for reasons already stated. The parents and litter may well be being well looked after, but that in no way excuses breeding from poor tempered parents, not health testing and selling two bitches.

If you don't take them, who knows what will happen. But you should NOT in any way feel guilty. The pups are NOT your problem until you physically take them away...you still have time to say no.

I've never bought a dog from a breeder, both mine are rescues,but I would have thought if you agreed a price that was it, it can't go up.Why did you have to pay up front other than a deposit anyway? I also think I would be very concerned about the father, and the whole thing sounds well dodgey to me, as others said there are plenty of staffies in rescue, its such a shame you didn't look to rehome one, but you are emotionally involved with these 2 puppies now by the sound of it, although I would have a lot of concerns from what you've said.

Aww hun if I were you i'd try and get as much of the money back as you can, use the bump up of price as an excuse, if he says no then threaten him with trading standards or something as that is unfair trading anyway, you had a verbal agreement on the prices, he can't just bump it up cuz he feels your a mug (sorry for how that sounds, but that is what he will be thinking!). He saw you coming hun and if I were you i'd get out of there asap, the chances of the pups being healthy and good temperaments and also getting along with each other for life is really quite low. Dad sounds well dodgy and believe you me, dogs inherit so much of their behaviour through their parents, having been there with one of mine and settled for a lifetime of caring for a dog with temperament issues, you really do not want to go there and especially how you don't have much experience of dealing with such issues and this breed, you are bound to find it very difficult if the pups do develop their dad's 'nervousness'.

You may not get back however much he asked for a deposit but please try and get the rest back and move on, it is a very hard choice to make but think 2 years down teh line, do you want to chance 2 poorly dog who have bad temperament, which you can't take anywhere without worry of running into other dogs, who will hate strangers coming into your house, no-one will want to visit you any more e.t.c, or would you rather lose out on a bit of cash and get a nice healthy pup with a super temperament and loves everyone, who your friends and family will adores, because that is how staffs are SUPPOSED to be, it's people like this man who give them a bad name and then people buy them (sorry) and can't deal with them and that is why rescues are flooded with them.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but this happens day in day out and you will be doing yourself the biggest favour by walking away now while you still can, the money is a small price to pay, imagine waiting a year or so with the pups before you found out you couldn't cope and then having to give them up, that would be so much harder.

If you absolutely have made up your mind and there is no shaking you, please just take the one, she will be much easier and she is likely to take up so much more of your time and energy than a well bred pup from a good breeder, it would be hard enough with 2 very well bred pups but 2 badly bred ones is just asking for trouble, you can always have another later on down the line, please please think about it and don't let your heart rule your head. JMHO.

Its ok, I thought my other half had already paid him as it's kind of a friend through a friend, but he hasn't, i just called him at work to double check
the text i just received said that the price had to go up to 250 coz since they put the price down they've had loads of interest and only now have 3 to sell!
sounds greedy to me!
so i am now fuming because not only is that quite a diffence in price, but he's also still willing to sell me 2 bitches so long as he makes £500! and he's backtracked on a verbal agreement!
to be honest i think if he now offered me the puppies for free i wouldnt take them, i just dont trust him!
it clearly wasnt meant to be, and after reading all your wonderful advice about not having littermates, and making sure there are health checks etc, no matter how much i wanted these puppies i think we're going to have to look elsewhere
i dont know whether to scream or cry!

OH what a dilema you're in, but thank God you're listening to all the very good advice on here, which is all true imo too!

Next time you look, no matter what else you do, pick only ONE puppy from the same litter, and if you want another one, then find another reputable breeder to get your 2nd one, but having just gone through the puppy bit myself (now 7 months old from 10 weeks!) I can honestly tell you that ONE will be more than enough to cope with, especially with work commitments etc. etc. If you get two from the same litter, you will find they bond with each other rather than YOU and you'll be having double trouble in no time, and any reputable breeder would never let you take two at once, coz a reputable breeder is much more concerned as to where their puppy's are going to than the money side of things, and you will find that they decide FOR you whether or not you will be getting one of their puppies! It's well worth it, even if you have to wait, rather than be heartbroken a few weeks/months down the line, or having to give them up to rescue, just like a lot of the others these terrible people have bred! So glad you decided to put your sensible hat on with this one, and I'm sure there'll be the perfect puppy just waiting for you somewhere, one that will be healthy as well as a wealth of other benefits! Good luck

Oh, I am so, so pleased to read this, thank you so much for listening to the advice given on here. If I was you, I wouldn't scream or cry, I would smile that this money-grabbing guy hasn't got one over on you and you have saved yourself a lot of heart ache in the future.

Each breed of dog has various known health problems and these are what good breeders test for. It doesn't always guarantee that your pup will be free from these problems, but it does substantially reduce the chances.

I'm afraid I don't know what health checks are needed for staffies, but I think someone told you in an early post...read up on this so that you understand exactly what health problems staffies can have, what the tests are and what you should be asking the next breeder.

A good breeder will charge you more, but you will have a much better idea of what you are getting. Failing that, please do consider rescue...there are hundreds of staffies needing homes and the vast majority have lovely temperaments but have just been seen as 'disposable commodities' by their previous owners.

Good luck in your future search and once again, well done for doing the sensible thing

Don't scream or cry, just give yourself a big pat on the back and know you've done the right thing!

There are some brill breeders out there that really care about their pups and their welfare. A Breeder that doesn't ask questions of potential owners and then puts a price up after a verbal agreement, I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

You are doing the right thing and now, with the advice from here, you can look for a dog/dogs that will be perfect for you and your family

I've heard that there are a lot of Staffies in Rescue and not just older ones, I've heard of litters being dumped too, so you could look down the Rescue route if you wanted. That way you'd get your new doggy friend/friends and do a good thing to help a homeless dog/s too

I am so pleased you can back out of it, that is such a relief to hear, I was really worried for you. That perfect pup will be out there for you, and at least now you know what to look for.