Aggressive collie pup (two threads merged) Behaviour

Hi Im new to owning a collie and desperately looking for help.I m reluctant to say an 11 week old pup is being aggressive but this is definately more than mouthing.I can be sitting down reading and he is perfectly calm and out of the blue he launches himself at me growling and snapping.Any attempt to remove him or calm him results in the other person being nipped.If we try to remove him from any situation he has a real temper tantrum trying to bite and growl.He also is very food protective which includes anything he has in his mouth (grass flowers mud etc)However he will give up toys no bother.We are trying all the "dominance"techniques but to no avail."Have I bit off more than I can chew" (Ha!Ha!)It sounds drastic but he is making our lives miserable and we are contemplating rehoming.Any advice appreciated.:

Hello and welcome to dogsey.



Don't panic about your pup. Dale was exactly the same but and if I got there then I'm sure you will too

You'll find lots of advice on here, but one thing I would suggest is using a house line to give you a bit more control.
Also remember to stay calm and firm and reward him with attention when he's behaving well.

Thanks for the advice I was considering a play pen or such not as punishment but a safe place when I need to do things .I m hopeful things will improve when he can get out and burn off some of that nervous energy after his jabs are finished.Are your dogs family pets?

I would consider a crate rather than a playpen that way you can use it any time you need to leave you pup knowing he is perfectly safe.there are some good threads on here on crate training.

I would not get too hung up on the whole dominance thing. Try to reward the positive and ignore the negative. If he launches himself at you I would immediately try and divert him into a game with a toy. this way his energies are being channelled in the right direction.

Have you had him checked over by a vet to make sure there isn't an underlying medical reason for his behaviour?
Becky

Dominance is a very controversial subject currently in the dog world. I strongly feel good leadership on the owner's part is essential, but most people are moving away from harsh methods. Have you read through http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=103180 and http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=106879 Yes, give him leadership, but as an old fashioned parent, not a drill sargent. I am using more gentle methods now than in the 90's. They work better.

He is treating you the way he did his litter mates. You need to respond the same way they did. Young Labs, which I know best, and other puppies tend to very bad about biting. You see a litter of them, and all the ones that are awake are biting another one or themselves. I am not even sure they realize that when they are alone, if they quit biting, they would quit being bitten. At 3 to 4 months they are getting their adult teeth, and it seems they spend every waking moment biting or chewing. One thing you can do at that stage is to knot and wet a piece of cloth. Then freeze it. The cooling will soothe the gums. Only let the puppy have it when you are there to watch it. I maintain a Lab's favorite chew toy is another Lab. Otherwise they settle for any person they can. They keep hoping to find one that won't yelp, jerk their hand away, and leave.

You just have to keep on correcting them, hundreds of times, not dozens. Provide sturdy, safe toys such as Kongs and Nylabones. Avoid things they can chew pieces off and choke on them. Keep them away from electrical cords. Crates are essential for most young Labs and other dogs.

The pet stores are full of toys that many dogs will quickly chew up into pieces they could choke on or cause intestinal blockages. If you are not there to watch, stick to sturdy stuff such as Nylabones and Kongs. Keep a close eye on chew toys and quickly discard anything that is coming apart in pieces. Rawhide is especially bad because it swells after being swallowed. I don't trust any of the consumable chews. The dogs just gnaw them down to a dangerous size too quickly. These problems are the worst with, but not limited to, large, aggressive chewers such as Labs.

I firmly believe in the use of crates, but not to punish a puppy, but as a safe place when you can't watch it.

Part of the problem may just be needing more attention. If you don't want him on the furniture, you can sit on the floor with him while you read. We bought a bean bag chair to share with our puppies while keeping them off the other furniture.

yes becky he was fully checked out by the vet last week and is in tip top health

Brenda

Thanks I will look into getting a crate.At the moment he is sleeping peacefully looking like butter wouldnt melt!! we had a better morning.he had one episode but I managed to nip it in the bud by giving him atoy and removing him onto the floor.

Thanks very much for your detailed reply.Crates seem to be a good idea although I have never used one before.Bought him a Kong yesterday "hours of fun" lasted 10 mins but all babies have short attention spans.!I think he is just playing very roughly but it is quite scary when he does it.Our last dog was a collieXlab who was very docile and well behaved .I suppose it willtake us a bit of time to get used to Dexter.

collie pup big mistake or not??

Have just got a 11week old collie pup .On the plus side he is already coming to his name and sitting when asked.He sleeps well at night until let out around 5am.He is getting there with the toliet training using papers and managing to go outside most of the time as I am at home and can let him out regularly.On the minus side he gets wound up and bites (NOT mouths)me jumping at me to get a nip and last night when my husband tried to lift him off the setee because he was ripping the cover he turned on him snarling and snapping.We have had conflicting advice none of which is working.Is it possible he is just an aggressive dog its quite difficult to love him when hes like this.He was born on a farm and his mum was a working dog and I wonder if she wasnt there to keep him in line early on?We cant go on like this unless there is hope that he will settle.

I would think about contacting a reputable trainer in your area.they could devise an individual programme for his needs. Maybe someone else could point you in the right direction?I am not sure whereabouts Peterhead is in Scotland.

These are APDT trainers need you.

There is hope he will settle.
He is a pup and he sounds pretty scared and confused.
You need to find a training method and stick to it, you can't have given any training method long enough to really work yet.

So....what do you do when he mouths?
What toys does he have?
What do you feed him?
Is everyone consistent with him?

http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp
Check out this site for local classes

http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm
An excellent article about puppy mouthing.

http://www.dog-games.co.uk/newshop/...it - Book by Lyn Fleet and Helen Roberts.htm

An excellent pamphlet/book, I would HIGHLY recommend it to you or anyone else with a pup.

Don't think he is aggressive, far too young, he is only a baby.
Do you go to training classes with him?
Does he get out and socialised?
What are you feeding him?

Sorry I know it sounds a bit like the Spanish Inquisition, but the more info we have the better we can help you.

Elaine x

I'm no dog "expert" but I personally think 11 weeks is way too young to diagnose whether a pup is "aggressive"!

If it were me, I'd read all the stuff that has been recommended. I'd praise the good behaviour (like mad) and I'd ignore the bad behaviour (to the point the pup is missing the attention). If none of that worked, then I'd see a behaviourist after having the pup checked out at the Vets to make sure he is completely healthy.

I definitely think there is HOPE that he will settle. You just have to find what works for the pup in training him to be the pet you desire. It all takes time though. No overnight quick fixes I'm afraid

Good luck

It sounds like a puppy needing good leadership. At 11 weeks, he has been getting away with treating his littermates like that all his life. He is too young for obedience class, but you need to start, perhaps working out of a book. The key to most behavior problems is approaching things using the dog's natural instincts. Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at [Links removed]

Young Labs, which I know best, and other puppies tend to very bad about biting. You see a litter of them, and all the ones that are awake are biting another one or themselves. I am not even sure they realize that when they are alone, if they quit biting, they would quit being bitten. At 3 to 4 months they are getting their adult teeth, and it seems they spend every waking moment biting or chewing. One thing you can do at that stage is to knot and wet a piece of cloth. Then freeze it. The cooling will soothe the gums. Only let the puppy have it when you are there to watch it. I maintain a Lab's favorite chew toy is another Lab. Otherwise they settle for any person they can. They keep hoping to find one that won't yelp, jerk their hand away, and leave.

You just have to keep on correcting them, hundreds of times, not dozens. Provide sturdy, safe toys such as Kongs and Nylabones. Avoid things they can chew pieces off and choke on them. Keep them away from electrical cords. Crates are essential for most young Labs and other dogs.

As well as being a dog trainer, I own three collies and train hundreds of them and have experince tooof working sheepdogs. So I hope I cn help.

Collies are extremely bright dogs. Lets not consider wether your dog is "aggresive" or not, lets just look at the facts and see how we can help.

Firstly he is not too young for an obedience class as long as it is the right one - we start puppies from 8 weeks and those that start early fdo best. Its not about obnedience as such, though that is part of it, its about finding ways of handling your puppy and meeting its needs, and developing your relatiosnhip - that is what we teach.

Where do you live - I run an excellent intro night which will help you with nearly all puppy problems - Nottingham 26th June.

Puppy biting is NORMAL and is currently the only way your pup can communicate with you. YOu MUST adapt this however into teachign him that bitiung is fine, as long asd it is on a tug toy. I use old towels knotted, or if you prefer, proper dog tug tpys. Long about 18 inches, they can be held in both hands and the puppy deflected off you and your clothes. The secret, is that once the puppy pays any attention to the tug toy, you must become animated, pull, tug, and MAKE some noise. Often people fall silent when the dog plays on a toy, but squeel and shout when the dog bites them or their clothes - wrong way round.

Until you have owned a collie puppy, no one can know just how demanding they can be. Even as a dog trianer, my first puppy drove me to distraction, she seemed to hate me and attaked me at every opportunity, my next one was just adoroable in every way and I was permanently smiling through his puppyhood, They are all different - but MOST, are energetic, intelligent and demnanding.

BUT THIS IS FUN REMEMBER. What you have is a fantastic animal who is already trying to communicate to you. Thats brilliant.

Personally, I woul seek a good class and get some help. Call me if you want to chat about it. I offer free advice over the phone. I want all dogs to stay in happy lifelong homes, and if I can help to achieve that by helping you, then I will be delighted.

Finally, if he doesnt like being picked up then dont pick him up. If you need to mov him off the sofa r anywhere, allow him to trail a lon line in the house and just remove him gently with that.

If you enterr into confrontation then you are just teaching your dog that confrontation with humans is ok and that is not what you want from a dog alrady bred to control, manipulate and work hard to achieve its goal

In my view, collies are the best dogs in the world, bur im biased, but they do need an outlet for their mental and physical capacity. Get some training under your belt, keep asking for help and engaage in plenty of relationship building tug type games.

Also, teach your dog to search for his foodin the garden - scatter feeding, like you would a chicken, is a great way of using up mental energy and developing calm approach to eating.

And finall fainlly, try to enjoy this time, appreciate your puppy for what he is, and take lots of photos - they grow up so quickly Enjy. And contact me if I can help.